Quarter Mile ETs, forum members

[1up3down]

Just curious what any of us went through the traps at, presumably in our youth?

In 1972 I had a 750 Combat, standard 19 tooth countershaft, with a Dr Blair 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust, and had the rocker arms lightened and the inlet and exhaust ports "flowed" cleaned up. My bike was in top shape, I was a sea level, and I weighed 125 pounds then.

My best 1/4 mile time at the local dragster, after five passes, was 13.4.

I am NO highly experienced drag racer, but I was well coached and had over 20 runs on previous Commandos to give me some experience prior to my 13.4.

26 years later I owned an air cooled two valve Ducati 900 "Monster", and first pass clocked a 13 flat, bone stock.

Four years ago on my Honda ST1300 700 pound luxury tourer, I did a 12.8 quarter mile.

Two years ago on a 20 year old Honda 600 I managed a 12.2.

 

[ILLF8ED]

Several including me have posted in the past our results. Your low 13s is slower than others. What was your elevation? I won't give my time as I lost the slip years ago - no proof. I ran at close to sea level in 1973 in southern Cal, Ontario speedway. The bike was a '72 750 roadster, combat engine with around 2,000 miles from new. Premium leaded fuel of the time, all stock as supplied by Norton for a combat spec.

 

[Hobot]

In '99 on my first Commando a Combat that was well used but well tuned got ~11.85 sec / ~97 mph on 1000 ft strip. I had tire pressure too low to cross THE Gravel so on 5th go tire folded up in spike of traction to wheelie vertical then side ways to take out my R knee 167 miles from home. I rode back with funny story how I kicked it off. I've had Commando owners from '70's tell me they'd spent a lot on engine then win drags by dumping clutch in 4th and hanging on WOT. Leaning to launch well is tricky and scary to me.

Me in far lane, Rick in close lane on cammy wheelie bar'd 1200 Sportster. I got jump on him twice but he'd out hp me 2/3'd way to 1000 ft mark, ugh.

Best Combat 1/4 mile ET was 12.24 as surprised a magazine shoot out in '73.

I had real dragster as my 1st ride a '68 Ranger P!! that shop went all out on so had Axtell or Woods level engine with tach marked at 9000. It would run away from the 3 jug 2 strokes of the era from first throttle snap on dual Amals to over the ton when we'd quit as running out of straight. I was told its best win in National event was 10.49 1/4 ET. I'd quess street tire was good for low 11's 1/4 going by the specs of the triple 2smoke that got shut down. No Trident riders would even start a race after one show off blip neck whip lasher clutch let off, after I had let go of throttle.

 

[Carbonfibre]

In '99 on my first Commando a Combat that was well used but well tuned got ~11.85 sec / ~97 mph on 1000 ft strip. I had tire pressure too low to cross THE Gravel so on 5th go tire folded up in spike of traction to wheelie vertical then side ways to take out my R knee 167 miles from home. I rode back with funny story how I kicked it off. I've had Commando owners from '70's tell me they'd spent a lot on engine then win drags by dumping clutch in 4th and hanging on WOT. Leaning to launch well is tricky and scary to me.

Me in far lane, Rick in close lane on cammy wheelie bar'd 1200 Sportster. I got jump on him twice but he'd out hp me 2/3'd way to 1000 ft mark, ugh.

Best Combat 1/4 mile ET was 12.24 as surprised a magazine shoot out in '73.

I had real dragster as my 1st ride a '68 Ranger P!! that shop went all out on so had Axtell or Woods level engine with tach marked at 9000. It would run away from the 3 jug 2 strokes of the era from first throttle snap on dual Amals to over the ton when we'd quit as running out of straight. I was told its best win in National event was 10.49 1/4 ET. I'd quess street tire was good for low 11's 1/4 going by the specs of the triple 2smoke that got shut down. No Trident riders would even start a race after one show off blip neck whip lasher clutch let off, after I had let go of throttle.

You got an awful lot of work to do to match the 9.49 of a mildly modified Jap 600, which according to numerous past posts of your is far slower than your Norton!

 

[highdesert]

I cannot imagine how a Commando, no matter how well put together unless possibly on a blower, would have enough grunt to get off the line in fourth gear from a dead stop. You can wind it up to red line and drop the clutch and it will bog down so bad it can barely get moving. To state this is an actual drag strip technique would at best maybe beat a Honda 350 by the end of the 1/4 mile straight.

Sorry, but this one goes in the same delusional bin as stating that current day Ducati ("modern, elites") sport bikes are "corner cripples", or insisting that a single Mikuni will flow more at top end and out accelerate a twin carb.

2 plus 2 is not five, no matter how badly one wants to believe it.

 

[Hobot]

Aw geeze guys, I did not post about Peel's wishful potential here so pointless to bring it up. In the posts I did detail Peel power potential with online calculators and ET's no one piped up, strange. I don't consider my self much a x-mass tree drag racer, its tough and scary to launch. Who knows what the sprint performance will be on next Ms Peel but I have no more respect at all for any fatso tyred super bikes 'puter controled or not, when the leaning gets below 45' they all become dangerous corner cripples. My P!! would sprint the snot out of past Ms Peel in her prime but not turning. As to bogging a 10:5 CR 920 with some boost on top with narrow high speed passages in any gear selected, HA HA HAHAHAAAAA
AMC guts spilled out, ugh, sure could.

To directly respond to a rational remark by Carbon, No I don't expect Peel to be able to beat elite sprinters in long straights, but that is only condition the elites excel in to me. I'd be pleased silly just to break under 10 sec 1/4's but on a technical track like Barbers, that will plenty enough to make Peel's point. In chicanes and fairly tight twisties, where speeds are already up and varies between say 45-85 Peel could indeed out leap the hot shots in 1st and 2nd gear zone. The few who did pass Peel, by then knew it was pure displacement and hp nothing else. Its such an unexpected and uncanny joy I hope others follow my mods to see what they may be missing out on, even on mere 40+-ish hp, when they can put down more power in turns that the corner cripples. i would run Peel to 60 in 1st and 90 in second and sure pulled stronger than my 70 hp wimpy beginers SV.

 

[Carbonfibre]

If indeed a bike where the rear wheel is able to move independently of the front, due to a crude rubber mounting anti vibration system, with chassis rigidity being further compromised by a 1940s style pre-unit engine/transmission, is something that works far better than more modern machines, then one wonders why exactly no one has reproduced and refined this set up for use on current MotoGP machinery today?

Could the reason for this perhaps have something to do with the fact that such designs were dated even in the 1970s, and today the only people claiming such machines superior are likely to be idiot web warriors, who are quite unable to support any of their ridiculous claims with anything even vaguely related to fact?

 

[Matt Spencer]

Wotta prissey little git . It normally takes the Japs 50 yrs to copy anything worthwhile . Even new Norton evidently have no comprehension of its fundamental characteristics , Not to worry , he's likely a snivvling pom .Is carbonfibre bullet proof ? .

 

[bill]

depends on how thick it is, the caliber and type of bullet. as I shoot a 50 BMG bolt gun ( hence name on most forums bill50cal) I doubt it with a black tip AP round :mrgreen:

Is carbonfibre bullet proof ? .

 

[bill]

back on subject. when I bought a new 72 combat it ran 13.0's and a 12.9 on a few trips down the strip and it was as it came off the showroom floor.

 

[mikegray660]

It normally takes the Japs 50 yrs to copy anything worthwhile ..........

i find this statement laughable - and perhaps one of the beliefs that helped led to the collapse of the british motorcycle industry

 

[highdesert]

My neighbor's new R1 is a corner cripple, my 40 year old Commando might not, maybe have the horsepower, but on a race track the R1 would be eaten alive.

Same with the new Ducati 998, no way that corner cripple could stay with a Commando through the twisties.

Now if all the modern elite manufacturers would just wake up and put those 170hp motors in a Commando frame, then they would be just shocked at how much better they would handle.

Man those Norton engineers understood frame geometry and tires in the seventies so much better than today's elites.

If only modern race bikes would ditch their multiple carbs and switch to singles they would have more top end.

Every post just has to have a raving reference to Mrs. Peel and Miss Trixie.

It's all about ME, all the time.

 

[Matt Spencer]

Cantilever rear suspension . Two stroke oil injection . Oil Cooled pistons .self deterined corrosion inhibiting for salted roads,
this ones less popular these days , but Im sure itll make a comeback .Ive seen one or two jappers that put the poms to shame in this respect. :mrgreen: . It just the olis above the joints in jappers and most back yard bodgers find them too complex.Plus theres a ready supply of ones near indistinguishable .

Mustve been 77 ? saw the new fangled GS 1000 S and leather clad night rider Vs The slightly scruffy bloke on T150 ,
last race of the meeting , sundown , at a Meremere Street Meet . Cars & Bikes . It wasnt the Suzuki that won .

Talking to him and his mate earlier BSA 650 down for a few runs , nudge look nod . Hes serious . T 150 had pullbacks,
rider upright , front skipping in first and second . The GS wasnt smokeing the rear off the line .

Motorcycles cost near twice what they did in Aussie , in N.Z. , people in general wernt careless with them .
Though many suffered from ignorance , overuse (20 yrs of handed down failings ) and parts unavailability / cost .

Not sure the 600s would do so well with a 20 stone rider on them . :lol: . RD350s it was 8 stone kids , & ran out of steam @ 90mph / 95 , if not meticulessly maintained , like anything else . Perhaps there a bit more durable these days .

But that should go for new replacement components for the Commandos too , if theyve improved materials & machineing

processes . Or just held standards and made them less expensive . :lol: :shock:

 

[Matt Spencer]

We'd better all chip in , and buy the Black Lightning on Ebay .And some batheing trunks . We can put Hob on this ,
which will temper his entusiasm for a while . :shock:

 

[swooshdave]

If indeed a bike where the rear wheel is able to move independently of the front, due to a crude rubber mounting anti vibration system, with chassis rigidity being further compromised by a 1940s style pre-unit engine/transmission, is something that works far better than more modern machines, then one wonders why exactly no one has reproduced and refined this set up for use on current MotoGP machinery today?

Could the reason for this perhaps have something to do with the fact that such designs were dated even in the 1970s, and today the only people claiming such machines superior are likely to be idiot web warriors, who are quite unable to support any of their ridiculous claims with anything even vaguely related to fact?

Yeah, God forbid some decrepit old Norton have any chance down the strip.

 

[highdesert]

I think most people would agree that a straight line purpose built double engined dragster is a poor choice to make to support a HANDLING contention that a Commando will outperform modern "elite" sport bikes in the handling department.

Great enthusiasm for Commandos is commendable, especially on this forum, but ridiculous claims are only laughable.

 

[Taylor Blair]

On a '99 Yamaha R6 I ran an 11.36... backed it up the next run with another 11.36.

On a '96 Honda RS125 GP bike I ran a 12.10 with gearing for road racing at Motorsport Ranch in Cresson, Texas. That was on racing slicks (front and back).

 

[mikegray660]

I think most people would agree that a straight line purpose built double engined dragster is a poor choice to make to support a HANDLING contention that a Commando will outperform modern "elite" sport bikes in the handling department.

Great enthusiasm for Commandos is commendable, especially on this forum, but ridiculous claims are only laughable.

\

Red alert - highdesert has made a very sound statement - unless he recant's and revises his statement directed towards the merits of a pushrod motor being the zenith of motorcycle engineering, i'm afraid we will have to label him a "trouble-maker" and unworthy of the adulation's of a noted few here :shock:

 

[Hobot]

Hehe, I do think Ms Peel is a one in a row wonder now that could change the way fast bikes are designed that can handle huge power and harsh hook up. Its not me me me its t Ms Peel Peel Peel. She's serious business to me, Trixie is just a cheap date compared. I could and have gone down long list of faults I've found in moderns and also pay close attention to the racer on new steeds in magazine reports and they agree with my own findings. Only real advancement that concerns me is the traction control programmed for each track turn, but that's only good for maxing out in phase two 'counter steering' handling and you can only go so fast and sharp around when the front is pointing and pulling the wrong way, duh. One outstanding feature of tri-linked Peel is how the effort to control her goes down not up the harsher I pressed her. Absolutely flabbergastingly fabulous! If anyone thinks I'm making it up oh well but I can't get the sensations out of my bone 24/7 and its been over half a decade since last on her.

Peel is a real Commando retaining the isolastics in an over lapping fork like chassis, but those lose ends are tied together for over lapping combined strength yet still allows deforming enough to take out the tire conflicts in far over hi powered leans each end traction and vector are in conflict. To ride Peel like she can take requires drag racer locked on crouch, all the pull is straight back and all side loads are in line with normal suspension action. I feel her twist up but never rebound but to central rest state on release , un-like the over rigid moderns which even with all their advancements build up random splashes that skip out front or rear not just on tip overs but harsh flip back ups. Shoot they will even lift both tires up at once suddenly when all seems fine, swoosh. Pilot and bike mass is almost all above the tire tops for goodness sakes. CoG is important as all get out when leaned to max and still want some force applied down into tires instead of off the surface. So as rocket ship as the elites have gotten, rockets w/o vectored thrust are straight liners only compared to what a triple linked C'do can do w/o breaking a pilot sweat.

Tire profile on rim makes a whole lot of difference too I've found out. I had to watch out if going too fast/far over on fat ass tires up to 170 size but had to watch out I wasn't going fast enough to break Peel loose in time. Scary to have too much traction for the power, so Peel gets more power to break out at will at higher speeds. One of her funnest ways mixed up phase 3 and 4 handling. Going in under enough accellerating power than any extra lean trips her down further to sling rear out a bit which re-grips with a extra zing in acceleration while also aiming sharper, so whole sweeper done in a series of tip overs to break traction and flip up to accelerate harder. No steering involved just tip and trip, tip and trip while on increasing power all the way. Moderns aren't near neutral enough to take that w/o over whelming pilot strength and speed.

Barber's track top speeds are only 150 mph and about 100 mph average of best bike and almost 120 for best car to date. Peel just needs not to loose much time in the straights to have a shot at besting that. Cars tend to beat bikes in turns both by braking better and by holding higher speeds, bikes tend to gain it back in the opens. So its the turns that matter most and are funnest too. Code preached fastest turns are the funnest ones.

The extra rub is if Peel can pull off under 10 sec and out power handle elites in turns is doing it with push rods and vintage power adders of WWII era. Peel will have Hot Shot device so can change posture from low to sprint and lifted to twist. Not the most powerful engine by far but may be most effective for Peels purposes. Time and time slips will tell not my bantering about it.

 

[beng]

In the late 1980's I bought a black 850 Commando from the original owner for $500 that was in good shape. I put a new battery and tires on it and began to ride it. The date stamped into it's headstock was November 73'.

Anyway I regularly took it to a local 1/4 mile strip, rode it there, raced it then rode it home. It was bone stock except for a Boyer ignition, Barnett clutch plates and a K&N element for the air cleaner. I always took off the line slowly in first gear just getting the wheel to spin then fed in full throttle. By the time it got to 6000 rpm in first the tire had hooked up and when I shifted hard into second it would often pop the front wheel up. Time in the quarter mile was always in the high 13s, and the MPH was almost always 99mph every time it ran.

I always rode it on the street as fast as I did on the strip often "speed shifting" it by applying pressure to the shifter under full throttle then just snapping the clutch so it would shift up. A rear tire would only last one summer before it was worn to the cords. On dry pavement I lifted the rear wheel off the ground braking hard once to avoid the rear bumper of a car.

A few years later I had a 650 Norton Manxman which I took down the quarter mile once, it was around a second slower and several mph slower than the 850, again ridden very conservatively so I could ride it home in one piece. Also had a 1980 xr750 Harley I took down the strip in full dirt-track trim, without a front brake and even with no brakes at all once. It did not ET well, around 13 flat I think, because it was so short and tall and had a big Goodyear tire on the back and also it did not come on the cam until it was revved high, so it would always wheelie off the line, or you had to slip the clutch etc.. But it's power showed despite the wheelies, clutching and bogging it would mph around 112.... It liked to lift the front wheel off the ground even in higher gears when it came on the pipe, was supposed to have about ninety horsepower.