Short RoadHolder Forks Query

Unless Im mistaken , the ' Short Roadholder ' refers to the ' Manx ' length type . Or Featherbed . No doubt numerous lengths , or at least in combination with dampers / bush spacers .

These ' Short ' type ( with external springs ) can hit the lower steering damper fitting on the earlyish ( 70 ) Commando front guard , If you fit one .

Polishing , de burring , & ' coustom fitting / drilling ' the damper rod assembly , can ' tune ' the suspension to use . Indeed , youll likely hurt its feelings , fitting Jap Parts .
Why its immediate ancestors faught the little yellow blighters . :wink: :? .

Sounds l;ike you need to get the measureing stick out , and make some notes . In conjunction with the parts manuel . :? The ' SHORT ' ones for street use , youd end up with the nose lower
and less rake , if youre not doing 1000 mile an hour , might be o.k.

Matt Spencer said:

Unless Im mistaken , the ' Short Roadholder ' refers to the ' Manx ' length type .

Click to expand...

You are mistaken - short roadholders is usually used for the roadgoing featherbed bikes.
But this is not carved in stone anywhere ?
21.x" fork tubes like...
manx tubes were even shorter. They are fairly rare to see anywhere. And the alloy sliders were FORGED alloy, even rarer again.

Nortons did make 6 versions of roadholders though ;-,
manx, featherbed, hybrid, commando and the 2 single downtube frame versions (the earliest rh variety had steel sliders).
The prewar version may make a 7th version ?

Acebars said:

I'm a little confused about this early roadholder external spring chat, they are not the forks I'm interested in, also I understand that there are later short roadholder forks with internal springs, I'm pretty sure this is the case?

Click to expand...

You did introduce the external springs business.
It wouldn't normally come into discussions about later forks....

External springs were ONLY used on early ES2's and early dommies in the 1940s and 1950s.
All ? featherbeds and Commandos and P11's used internal springs.

P11's and N15CS used the 25.x" extra long fork tubes, so they are longer than 23.x Commando fork tubes, and MUCH longer than 21.x Atlas fork tubes.

Ludwig here has a P11 with 25" fork tubes (?) and Commando sliders and front wheel and disc brake.
Quite a neat setup, good brakes - and a well travelled bike.
I'm sure he could supply details.

Well I think I should take a step back having made a decision, and that is no short or short roadholder forks, they will make the bike to whippy around the corners for what I'm after.

So I'm definitely after longer forks.

So I'm after a pair of good British forks that perform well for the period they don't have to be shrouded but would be nice if they could be worked onto to end up like that. Question is now should I go for Long Road holders like the N15CS/P11, Commando forks or should I go for the AMC/AJS/Matchless teledraulics, I am very partial to Matchless/AJS so maybe I should go that direction. Trouble is forks is one area of bikes I have no idea about and performance is important to me, wallowing and clunkers are no fun.

These are probably too early for what I'm after.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380695773781?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Acebars said:

These are probably to early for what I'm after.

Click to expand...

And too skimpy ? - AMC went to 1 & 1/4" fork tubes somewhere in the mid 1950s.

A chat with Anthony Curzon could be quite helpful ?
You really need to end up with something like what it had in it originally, or it could be something of a camel....

Acebars said:

So I'm definitely after longer forks.

Click to expand...

So Commando forks, with longer tubes. ?
And disc brake
Like Ludwig has...

Stick yr nose in the for sale - ebay bit . justve thrown a few (big ) mx'ers there . :wink:

THIS is whot you need !



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: actually , likely BETOR forks , & mightnt be a bad idea . The Ceriani etc available back then in the U.S. wouldnt be a bad idea , either .

Original Mitesse was BSA frame Tri T100 powerplant & ROADHOLDER FORKS . therefore a Mitesse front ends eligable . :?

The funny fork shrouds might be a problem with the DISC front End ( Commando ) as its the old 7 in. Vs 7 3/8 in. ( or woteva ) bit ,
ON THE TRIPLE TREES .

Mr Russhud , the new member , has a BSA front end with 12 foot over stauchions he may part with , If you like the single sided 8 in brake .

theory is SLS is more feedback ,
2LS is more power , lighter lever .

These'll stop you below 80 mph , and slow you down , over that . Therefoore a discs unnessasary cept for Ton Downt Bypass , or touring 3 up with luggage
so might be o.k. if youre fitting a side car . :x Ordinary use its unnessesary . The EARLY Commando Front End ( Fastback ) is likely a good choice .
With Gaiters , as dust gets up those steel sleeves , combined with leaky seals ( :shock: 0 it makes grinding paste for the Stauchions & Bushes .

Thus a Jap 500 MX / XR hondyamaha front end for 50 bucks , :? would suit for the while , & dont forget the Rear Shocks . 2 way damped , if you will .

Matt thats a lot of info!

I am definitely going 2ls or 4ls on the front. I'm thinking Triumph/BSA conical 2ls or Suzuki 4LS front drum that or a replica Grimeca or whatever (I am not a cafe racer whatsoever, but I do like stopping power).

The early Commando forks look like a good option as there is a lot of support and I can fit a pair of these and then manufacture sliders to go over them:



Either that or the P11/N15CS forks but I don't know if emulators and damper cartridges from Commando forks will swap over.

The EARLY Commando Front End ( Fastback ) is likely a good choice .
With Gaiters , as dust gets up those steel sleeves , combined with leaky seals ( :shock: 0 it makes grinding paste for the Stauchions & Bushes .

Click to expand...

You are worrying me now, I want none of that! No leaky seals please, is this a known problem with Commando forks?

Looking at the picture in post#3 by acebars, they look like the correct n15- early commando type though have been fitted with external springs, reasons- 1 the top yoke has a steering lock which is not fitted to either my 54 Domi or my 57 ES2 and I believe that the steering lock was introduced when the yokes were widened in the mid 60's and 2 the small cups below the bottom yoke are the same as on my 69 fastback and are for the gaiter to fit over and would be correct for n15 or early fastback.
Al

Acebars said:

You are worrying me now, I want none of that! No leaky seals please, is this a known problem with Commando forks?

Click to expand...

Thats why the P11 and N15CS and the Mk3 Commandos used gaiters on the forks

Tin covers just trap the dirt in there...
If you never go offroad this may not be that big an issue, however.

possm said:

Looking at the picture in post#3 by acebars,

Click to expand...

It hasn't actually been said, but we don't think this is the actual bike being discussed ?

5000 years ago , all the roads were Clay , with Granite chips . And Lime in the winter .
So the goey paste would get plastered in your teeth and everything else that moved.

Pulling the front end down , could find a accumulation up in the sleeves , chewing out the works .
Some went so far as to vent the gaitors via tubes to ' clean air ' , to stop the bellows inhaleing grit .
( when fitted / & - The exposed stauchion look was frowned upon as unprotected by diehards etc once )

But if you arnt frequenting the back blocks , or have a 5 km gravle drive , youd have to be paranoid to worry .

INCEDENTLY the BSA stauncions are the ' Big ' diameter , same as the Norton . This misbeguided contraption had
a 7 in. dia. pressed tin Front Brake . Except capitals are innappropriate . The 8 in. SLS single sided CAST Drum is however a Good Brake .
Within Limitations .

All Ace wrenches should have a 80 p.s.i. Compressor & Air Hose & Air Gun . Therefore blowing away the dust 7 accumulations
periodically . Before their abrasive characteristics give cause for concern . After All , its just a piece of machineary . In Function .

Cleanliness is next to . . .

Matt like the look of your bike, rugged comes to mind! Mine is going to be used on paved road only, if I was going off road I'd obviously sport rubber gaiters for that.

I've been thinking about a 8" Triumph/BSA front brake but I'll put that up in another thread.

So basically the P11 and N15CS long road holder forks would be perfect for what I'm after/looking to do, with the added benefit of AMC internals, and I understand the lower fork leg is the same on the early Norton Commando as the P11/N15CS.