Shorai - dont do what I did

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=510

US made, top quality and a reasonable price. This is my current GO-TO battery for all my (ATV's, snowmobiles, bikes, lawn equip) powersports needs. I buy them here: http://www.baltimorebattery.com/deka-etx-batteries

ETX9 in my kick start '74

Jerry,

Take Ken up on his offer. The Shorai charger should bring them back. I have had some completely drained one that did even through it took a couple of days

The Shorai charger will charge each cell independently. A normal battery tender will charge the battery as a whole. This may be what makes the difference.

Important not to use a charger that has a de-sulfation mode as this will not work properly with a Shorai

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com

Interesting stuff. The Shorai site shows the charger is(as Matt says) capable of balance charging the Battery. I've used a lot of Li-Po's on large RC Helis, where the safe practice is never to discharge the battery to less than 20% of it's capacity. It's also wise to balance charge the batteries after say 10 conventional charge/discharge cycles, this balances the individual cells to within a fraction of a volt. This is done, as some evidence exists to show that if the Cell voltages are unbalanced, this can cause premature failure of the cells.
If you have the Shorai charger, it would not do any harm to periodically balance charge your battery with your charger.

I did the same with my Shorai about a year ago - left the ignition on overnight and the next morning it was dead. HOWEVER, it wasn't completely dead - still had 3V showing and I connected a battery tender charger to it. That afternoon it was back up to full charge and has been fine ever since.

I suspect the shorai in question could have been charged just fine if the charger recognized there was a battery there. I have had the same thing happen with conventional (flooded) batteries that were totally flat - as recently as a few weeks ago. I did what has been suggested here, put another battery in parallel with the discharged one and the charger then charged them both just fine. Some chargers will not recognize there is a battery present if there is less than some minimal voltage.

Jerry, my LFX18 has been fully discharged on two occasions and survived. Although I have the Shorai tender I initially brought it back to life using a variable power supply. I just applied enough voltage to create a small charge current (sorry I forget how much) and then periodically increased the voltage to maintain the charge current. It took many hours and a lot of patience but once the battery was back to a few volts again I found the Shorai charger brought it back to full capacity again.

David

From what I understand about those batteries I'd only use them on e-start bikes. No need to spend the extra money if you are kickstart only. Then use AGM.

swooshdave said:

From what I understand about those batteries I'd only use them on e-start bikes. No need to spend the extra money if you are kickstart only. Then use AGM.

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Totally agree; I don't see any benefit for the Shorai in a kickstart bike. But it will spin the heck out of the Alton E-starter on my '73 Commando!

Dave- I liked your old Avatar (Yellow Peril -sort of bike) better; is that why you changed it?

mike996 said:

swooshdave said:

From what I understand about those batteries I'd only use them on e-start bikes. No need to spend the extra money if you are kickstart only. Then use AGM.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Totally agree; I don't see any benefit for the Shorai in a kickstart bike. But it will spin the heck out of the Alton E-starter on my '73 Commando!

I like the weight and space savings in addition to it being highly reccomended. The weight savings alone is worth a few extra wrenches in the toolkit IMO.

Toolkit? We don't need no stinkin' TOOLKIT!

For years I have been thinking about putting a toolkit together for the bike but have yet to do it. I do usually carry a camera usually so if it breaks down I can take a picture! Fortunately, that has never happened...yet. But if I'm riding with my wife, her BMW has a (metric) toolkit!

mike996 said:

Dave- I liked your old Avatar (Yellow Peril -sort of bike) better; is that why you changed it?

Click to expand...

I just changed it to advertise the rally. I'll change it soon.

Jerry,
I liked your idea of 2 Shorais in parallel. My frame is in for paint, while getting painted I think I will mode my electrical to include 2 Shorais. That way I can add my cigar lighter back in and cause TexasSlick to scratch his head a little more when he looks at my wiring diagrams.

Chuck

I took the 'Battery tender plus" back to the local auto store. I then purchased the Lithium battery maintenance (charger) from Ella. The first battery charged up to 14.5 volts within 2 hours. I plugged the charger into the second battery and the light said it was charged (it was completely drained with 0 volts when I checked it prior). Its weird, like the battery charger switched something back on. Anyway now I have 2 good batteries again and will be out and about charging around on the weekend. I like these lithium batteries again.

Here is my setup:
(28 AH)

Well done Jerry and good info for the rest of us with Shorai and the like.
Seems you might want to edit your title to "do what I did".

28ah? sheesh!

Jerry
Looks good, where are the actual connections to the system?
Peter

Just curious - why do you feel the need for two batteries? A single 18 Shorai has more than plenty of power for my Commando with the Alton Estart… ???

I am sure 18 AH is enough. I look at it a little different. When I was building the bike I was trying to work out what would fit in there best. I have a cool fuse block in there, so didnt have too much space and I carry tools there. The 2 batteries fitted perfectly. Then when I saw I would get that starting power too I couldn't resist. My MK3 really spins, loads of cranking amps to start. Normally they keep charge for ages too as you know. I did everything I could to make sure the starting was the best it could be. I have never owner a MK3 before and I heard the start area was weakest, so I made it as strong as I could when I put it together. I basically went overboard in that area. My back doesnt hurt any more..

If you go to the Shorai site somewhere it explains that the AH numbers used are approximately three times the actual Amphours stored in the battery. So an lfx 18 really only has 6 amphours of power. In other words, it will run a 6 amp draw (72 watt headlight) for one hour before becoming fully discharged. So the LFX 18 for this type of load is equivalent to a 6 amphour lead acid.
The 18 rating given to the battery is in reference to it's ability to produce a one time quick discharge, ie electric start draw. In this capacity the manufacturer claims it will equal an 18 amphour lead acid. If prolonged cranking is required, this rating becomes meaningless, it is not nearly the equivalent of an 18 amphour lead acid.
I think the two batteries with a combined rating of 28 ah equivalent is good idea, since in reality you are carrying a little over 9 amphours of actual power stored.
Jerry, it might be a good idea to load test the batteries if you have not already done so. When my Ballistic batteries died, they still charged to around 14 volts but faded to nearly nothing in a couple of minutes with the headlight switched on.
Seems like Shorai might be a more durable battery than the Ballistic, just based on the number of complaints floating around.

Glen

Interesting stuff. I will load test them and report back.
Thanks Glen

I didn't realize you had a MK III so yes, the dual setup sounds like a good idea; Fred at OB recommends that setup for the MKIII and the OB E-start. My single Shorai 18 will spin the Alton E-start for as long as you want to spin it before deciding that maybe you should check for why the motor won't start! So having additional capacity, for me, doesn't seem necessary. But hey, it can't hurt!

Hi Peter, (Chili)

That pic was from when I was building the bike, so connections were not made yet. When I get batteries back in later I will take a new photo with the connections

Cheers