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several noob questions - mounting on the RH support plate, rear brake cable routing...

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by joe czech, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. joe czech

    joe czech

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    74 commando -- there is a mounting hole in my RH support plate - it appears that at some point, there was something mounted there, and from some on-line pics, there is hardware filling the hole, so what gets mounted?

    second question - my rear brake cable is routed through my rear muffler mount - don't think that's correct. I have seen a pic showing the cable routed below the LH support plate, and pics showing up above and behind the support plate. what's the correct routing? i'm leaning toward above and behind.

    question #3 -- does anyone have a pic of the correct mounting of components on the rear frame bulkhead plate/component mounting plate - Zener diode, rectifier, capacitor, etc

    I spent a few hours this AM figuring out the rear chain oiler - have most of the parts - everything but some sort of felt tubing or hose. someone removed it, cut the hose, and threw the parts into a box. question #4 -- how does this felt thing work? seems to me, it would seep oil and make a mess. as far as the oiler, what do most of you folks do? remove it and manually lube the chain, or keep the oiler mechanism?

    too many hands in there over the years, just slapping things together without any thought as how it left the factory. things were changed, removed, modified, without thought. parts thrown into a box without the bag and tag approach. I've got boxes of pieces/parts, nuts and bolts, and i have no idea where some of this stuff goes. question #5 -- is there any publication details on how things get assembled. I can make out some details from the parts list manual. but actual routing of cables and such are somewhat unknown to me. TIA...

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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  2. Steves

    Steves

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    I have my cable routed that way. Not saying it's correct though. I put some of that plastic spiral wrap, the stuff you find in computers and such, around it to stop it wearing.
     
  3. joe czech

    joe czech

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    actually, on mine, the spacer sleeve of the LH passenger foot peg has a groove worn into it from the brake cable - i'm figuring that can't be right.
     
  4. oldbeezer

    oldbeezer VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Can't say for sure without seeing it, but that hole may be where the zener is mounted. The "Z" plate is used as a heat sink.
     
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  5. joe czech

    joe czech

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    good to know - makes sense - my original Zener was in the box of parts. one of the previous owners installed a podtronic rectrifier/regulator.

    just went out to the garage, and checked - stud on the Zener is the correct size and length, and the wires were disconnected and stuffed back in the battery compartment. don't think i'm going back to the Zener, so might as well leave it as is. thanks!
     
  6. Steves

    Steves

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    If you have a long red wire as part of the unused wires (would have connected to the old zenner) you can use it as an extra Earth pos+ cable down the frame tube to back of z plate and attached via the rear most foot rest bolt with a nut and washer.
     
  7. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    These are from my '73 and are original electrics, but the cable routing was changed as per the Norton Service bulletin issued in 1974. It was routed below the footpeg rest when I bought it and before I found the bulletin it wore a groove in the aluminum. The wiring is the same as my '74 was originally, but it has been rewired and modified so I'm using the '73 layout. The only difference was the '74 has turn signals and my '73 came without.



    These photos show me I need to do a little work and clean and replate a few items.
     
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  8. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Do not route the cable under the Z plate (although it's often seen in that position :() or you could end up with a suspension activated rear brake as the cable can foul the Z plate from the suspension movement.

    For the peashooter* mounting plates, factory photos show the cable going over the Z plate and behind the inner exhaust mounting bracket.

    *There's a June '75 service note and diagram in the INOA tech digest that says the correct routing is between the inner mounting plate and passenger footrest plate, however, the accompanying diagram shows the black cap/bean can exhaust brackets where the cable clearly does not pass between the inner plate and the silencer/muffler plate.

    If the cable is routed through peashooter brackets then it must also pass between the back plate and silencer/muffler plate where the silencer fasteners can damage the cable sheathing.
     
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  9. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Yes, the unused hole on rh Z-plate sounds like the Zener location. The diode needs to make good, clean contact with the z-plate to ensure best heat transfer. My bike had the earth wire eyelet btwn Zener and plate, making a lesser heat transfer. Guess that's one possible reason the spade connector plastic cover had melted!

    Here is how I ran my rear brake line:

    IMG_20181018_093111407.jpg

    Pretty much as LAB describes. Getting some chafing on the silencer stud threads. Though it might go above that stud, the angle to the SA bracket gets extreme...but might be OK when off the center stand with some load on suspension.
     
  10. PeterJoe

    PeterJoe

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    The answer to the first question is that the Zener diode mounts to the right hand Z plate. Also the foot peg is mounted with two studs and one long bolt. The bolt also serves as a ground point for the Zener diode.

    For the second question, the brake cable is originally routed above and behind the muffler plate, just the way you think it ought to be. Unfortunately there are aftermarket brake cables that are too short so those have to be mounted between the muffler plates. Also you need to ensure that there is a standard .071 thick washer stacked on top of the Z plate spacers. What that does is splay the Z plate out at the rear to help get clearance for the brake cable to go between the swing arm and the upper rubber mount stud. This washer addition is done at the factory even though the parts books don't show it. As a matter of fact is done on both sides for the sake of symmetry. Even with the extra washer on the spacers it's a good idea to disconnect the shocks and run the wheel up and down to ensure that the cable does not dig into the rubber mount stud. If the cable does interfere with the swing arm and stud, you may need to cut/grind the stud down and use a half nut along with no washer.

    On the stock configuration the brake cable rubs on top of the Z plate which will wear a groove into it. Also the cable rubs against the bolt head of the passenger foot peg. What I did to get around this is to make a special threaded passenger foot peg spacer and welded it to the inner muffler plate. The threads were 3/8 UNC. Then I made a special stud that was coarse thread on one end and fine thread on the other end so that I can position the stud in such a way that a foot peg will be in the proper position when tightened. I cut the muffler mount rubber stud in half to 1/4 inch in length. Then I opened a hole in the muffler plate and made custom step half nuts that would fit into the oversized hole. This gave me maximum clearance for the brake cable. I then made a stainless clamp with a heat shrink sleeve on it that fit around the swing arm so that it pushed the cable away from the Z plate.

    I found a problem with the brake cable that I purchased from Andover Norton. The ferrule that fits into the anchor point on the swing arm has a nose section that was too long and it's diameter was too small. I got around that by machining a special adapter. Here are some pictures of what I did with my bike. With what I did the cable does not chafe on anything even in full suspension travel.

    [​IMG]

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    For question number 3, the rectifier was mounted in one of three different places on the 1974 year model Commando. On the early Mark II's the rectifier and the turn signal flasher were mounted on the aft side of the frame plate. The rectifier doubled as the mounting bolt for the upper side panel support. The terminals faced down. The flashing unit bracket was mounted to a 3/16 hole just to the right of the rectifier.

    If your bike started life as a Mark IIA, the rectifier is mounted on a rectifier mounting plate (Andover Norton picture below) and the turn signal flasher is mounted on the front side of the bulkhead plate. This was done so that a plastic tool tray could be mounted under the seat. Also the wiring harness was moved forward a little bit so that the wire branch for the turn signal flasher, rectifier and brake switch wire go on the forward side of the frame's bulkhead.
    [​IMG]

    The third way is for the later standard Mark II's, the rectifier and the turn signal flasher were mounted on the forward side of the frame plate. I suppose they did this to streamline manufacturing. Also the rectifier plate was used even though the rectifier wasn't mounted on the plate itself. I guess it was just there as a cover plate.

    The blue 20MC capacitor was mounted on the forward side of the frame plate using the left hand fender bolt as it's attach point. I don't have any electrical component pictures of any of this because I rewired my bike and mounted components in a different way.

    Number 4 question, on the 1974 year model Commando Norton added a clamp that goes around the plastic tube that houses the felt. The idea is that you can adjust the clamp pressure to regulate oil flow to the chain. I think most people probably removed the chain oiler (like I did) or plugged it up so that it was inoperative.
    [​IMG]


    Question 5 - Get a parts book along with the Mark II/IIA parts supplement and a Factory Service manual. Also you may want to get a Norton Service and Repair handbook by Clymer publication. They took an early, brand new Mark II and dismantled it for a photo shoot. There are a number of service pictures throughout for originality reference.



    Peter Joe
     
  11. joe czech

    joe czech

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    THANKS for everyone's help - cleared a lot of issues, AND a big thanks to Peter Joe for the details - that really helps. on the pic of the small hose clamp with the tightening know - I found one of those in a parts box, but had no idea what it was for - cleared that up. still on the fence on re-installing the automatic oiler. my 74 is a late MkII edition. the only original component on the bulkhead still in place is the flasher. the 20uF cap is there, but not in the correct place. Zener and rectifier was in the box, and a podtronics unit installed. one previous owner didn't care about the "quality of work" - just threw things together. right now, i'm trying to sort through things and lay out a game plan.

    i'm leaning toward Peter Joe's rear brake routing. good to know about Andover's cable being a bit long and the fitment issues. I have a Barnett assembly on order, so we'll see how it fits and things go together. I especially like the hose clamp and the half nut idea.

    finally got my new main harness so re-wiring should start soon. haven't decided on using the Lucas bullet connectors or to install automotive type weather-seal connectors. I have a kit in the shop, and there's more than enough for the re-wire. once rewired, i'll need to service the fuel system - rusty tank, and most likely, i'll throw a rebuild kit at the single mikuni carb. if and when I get it running, and if there is no major engine issues, i'll do a full service, and evaluate the isolastic's and start looking into a brake upgrade. lots to learn with my new hobby. again, thanks for all the replies - :)
     
  12. PeterJoe

    PeterJoe

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    I bought a Barnett brake cable assembly and found that it is too short. The cable must have been designed to route between the muffler plates and not around the back. Also the ferrule on the cable that anchors to the swing arm is worse than the Andover Norton one as far as the nose section being too long. So you may not even want to take the cable out of the package so you can return it. I still have this Barnett cable assembly, brand new if anyone wants it he can have it.

    It's possible that the anchor point on my swingarm was machined incorrectly at the factory and other swingarms won't have the problem that I had.

    Peter Joe
     
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  13. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Re chain oiler...seems just about everyone eliminates it, citing the unacceptable oil fling as main reason. For the record, I run an aftermarket oiler on my modern bike, 2013 T100 Bonneville) which uses an X-Ring chain. I am of the opinion oiling the roller to sprocket contact points is important.
    The oiler I have is from Tutoro.com and does not need any electrical or vacuum hook up ( as does the popular Scott oiler). Mine works off an inertially operating valve, opening only when riding along experirncing road bumps...so no excess oil during stop lights etc. Excess oil is not a problem, there is a fine adjuster to limit to a drop or two per minute. I am seriously considering adding one to the Commando.

    [​IMG]
    https://www.tutorochainoiler.com/
     
  14. joe czech

    joe czech

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    thanks for the heads up on the Barnett cable. kind of disappointed - thought Barnett stuff was top shelf hardware. surprised there is fitment issues. anyway, spent a couple hours in the garage. disassembled the muffler/footpeg bracket assembly and re-routed the cable. damn near perfect. about the only place i'm seeing interference is the leading edge of the inner bracket. definitely looks a lot better time has taken it's toll on my rubber muffler isolators, so might as well add those to my on-line shopping cart. any other suggestion on an aftermarket brake cable. something the correct length and fitment.

    re - chain oiler. thanks Tornado. still on the fence on the oiler. will check out Tutoro.com.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Good to consider where you ride. Oil attracts fine dirt which is a serious abrasive. Maybe not a good idea for some .
     
  16. brokeneagle

    brokeneagle VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Your images just show up as a circle with a minus sign in, at least on my screen
     
  17. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Tornado likes this.
  18. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017

    Welp, looks like mine is incorrect as per that bulletin...time to git'r sorted!
     
  19. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    How do you intend to change it? With peashooter plates the cable can't be routed to match the drawing. Or to be more precise, the cable must also pass between the muffler plate and back plate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  20. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I'll have to look at it to decide...but the bulletin does state "all models with rear drum brakes". I do not like how my cable gets chaffed under the muffler stud...and it is likely interfering more, perhaps brake activating, when suspension compresses.
     

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