RGM Cam followers - Lifters

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I don't see why a follower could not be like a flat carb slide but turned 90 degrees and 2 running alongside each other within a bronze cage, no worries about lifts etc or feet falling off, just the stellite foot brazing or weld breaking unless the follower was a block of stellite.
 
I agree, that may work well, but the Commando follower tunnel diameter isn’t wide enough to allow the “carb body” to protrude down either side of the cam lobe.

Whatever way you look at it, that is a limiting factor, the supporting parts of the follower block must clear the lobe, thus limiting how far down they can go.
 
Fast Eddie said:
And if one were to decide not to use them, what would one use instead...?
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There's the problem. AN are apparently still not listing their "perfect" lifters with "no issues". Why? I don't know. Ask them. I know who is supplying lifters. Les Emery. I've never heard of a problem with his. Personally, I sourced a set of old lifters and had a 4" radius added with a Webcam 312b from Jim Comstock. Very torquey with power that starts at zero revs and pulls like a train. But, what would I know? I do know that since my "problem", local supplies of suitable secondhand lifters are drying up, so somebody must be taking notice.

I do know that anything that goes into my motor from here on in that has a hardness rating WILL be hardness tested as a matter of course. Why wouldn't I?
 
Fullauto said:
There's the problem. AN are apparently still not listing their "perfect" lifters with "no issues". Why? I don't know. Ask them. I know who is supplying lifters. Les Emery. I've never heard of a problem with his. Personally, I sourced a set of old lifters and had a 4" radius added with a Webcam 312b from Jim Comstock. Very torquey with power that starts at zero revs and pulls like a train. But, what would I know? I do know that since my "problem", local supplies of suitable secondhand lifters are drying up, so somebody must be taking notice.

I do know that anything that goes into my motor from here on in that has a hardness rating WILL be hardness tested as a matter of course. Why wouldn't I?
Click to expand...

Les Emery?

Strewth!

To each his own Ken. But I’m not putting Norvil parts inside my engine. I’ll stick with Steve Maneys advice and use AN followers. If they fail, y’all shall know about it!
 
Hi
For what it's worth I bought new lifters from RGM that were in an Andover plastic bag and tag, looked good but they were tapered, had to spend a lot of time hand lapping the inner faces to get them true again (inner faces was the problem all four were the same), from memory it was about 0.005" top to bottom, luckily the thin end was on spec.
I would have sent them back but I was in a hurry.
They seem to be good otherwise with no visible signs of wear last time I was in there :).
Burgs
 
Burgs said:
Hi
For what it's worth I bought new lifters from RGM that were in an Andover plastic bag and tag, looked good but they were tapered, had to spend a lot of time hand lapping the inner faces to get them true again (inner faces was the problem all four were the same), from memory it was about 0.005" top to bottom, luckily the thin end was on spec.
I would have sent them back but I was in a hurry.
They seem to be good otherwise with no visible signs of wear last time I was in there :).
Burgs
Click to expand...

Thanks for the warning, I’ll check mine on arrival. I’m closer to them than you and not in such a rush, so will have no hesitation about returning them if they ain’t right !
 
Nige, you're welcome and I will have the drawing out for you to measure against, if they are not right then you can go through them to find ones that suit. 0.0005'' from top to bottom is well within spec. Considering the machining accuracy of the cam tunnels is nowhere near the tappet tolerance on the old barrels, coupled with the tolerances on the two cases for the cam bushes in relation to each other, it can become a bit like Krypton tuning a tractor. New items made on some of the latest CNC machines is accurate beyond belief, it can even eliminate a human error of the forging or casting placement in the jig.

Fitting new tappets in a used barrel is lottery anyway - can you measure the play, do you know what it should be.

The new one piece Delchrome C tappets were poured this week, that's the easy part, grinding them is whole different story. That is why I had 9 grinding companies refuse to even quote for the final grind. After a visit to the supplier we had to decide, as with any engineering parts that run together, which was sacrificial, followers or cam, the cam lost as it is the cheapest part.
 
Thanks for the offer Ash, but let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. So long as they are a nice ‘feel’ in my new Maney barrels then we’re all good !
 
So,... the big picture looks like this:

1)Old stock lifters are generally known to be of hard enough stellite material but may delaminate due to their non-spigotted construction.

2)New lifters are constructed with a spigotted interface between the stellite and lifter body so they won't delaminate, but the hardness of the stellite pad has been brought into question by more than a few people who've had cam/lifter failures.

3)The reason Jim comstock did his oil testing experiments was to find the best oil possible to minimize the wear between lifters and cam lobes...

And it follows:

...that if you use old stock lifters, you risk delamination of stellite pads

...that if you use new lifters with spigotted construction, you should have them tested for hardness

...that you should use a reccommended oil from Jim's experiment to give your lifters and cam lobes the best protection possible.
 
Madnorton said:
Nige, you're welcome and I will have the drawing out for you to measure against, if they are not right then you can go through them to find ones that suit. 0.0005'' from top to bottom is well within spec. Considering the machining accuracy of the cam tunnels is nowhere near the tappet tolerance on the old barrels, coupled with the tolerances on the two cases for the cam bushes in relation to each other, it can become a bit like Krypton tuning a tractor. New items made on some of the latest CNC machines is accurate beyond belief, it can even eliminate a human error of the forging or casting placement in the jig.

Fitting new tappets in a used barrel is lottery anyway - can you measure the play, do you know what it should be.

The new one piece Delchrome C tappets were poured this week, that's the easy part, grinding them is whole different story. That is why I had 9 grinding companies refuse to even quote for the final grind. After a visit to the supplier we had to decide, as with any engineering parts that run together, which was sacrificial, followers or cam, the cam lost as it is the cheapest part.
Click to expand...

So, let me see. Your old tappets had no issues and your next batch of tappets were going to be made exactly the same way. Now you're talking about a new, one piece tappet. You've just decided to "upgrade" to a new part because.........?
 
Stellite has never been used, only Delchrome C, which in the old days was made by a company called Stellite and thus the confusion.

As I found out a couple of weeks ago, Stellite, about 30 different grades, but the most used and useful is 6B, it has excellent wear properties, but not that high in hardness. Delchrome C an excellent material, higher hardness and tough, for lower temp applications, like our aircooled engines, before someone says the engine gets bloody hot, it doesn't when you compare it to where Stellite can be used. What I also found out is that the companys making hard facing materials, work very closely together to reduce fake stuff that can be had out there. It was the only time I have seen a welding machine and huge purpose made chuck move independently of each other to apply weld to a huge industrial valve seat.

Ken, I thought even you could work that one out, as I have said before, ease of manufacture, the tooling was also old resulting in too much additional material to be removed in the grinding stage, that is why we sell plus 0.020'' tappets. It also takes away the loss in processing due to incorrect braze penetration when brazing, its not an upgrade - very early tappets were one piece cast iron, so nothing new. The material will be the same as the old tappet tip, so again no real upgrade.
 
Madnorton said:
Stellite has never been used, only Delchrome C, which in the old days was made by a company called Stellite and thus the confusion.

As I found out a couple of weeks ago, Stellite, about 30 different grades, but the most used and useful is 6B, it has excellent wear properties, but not that high in hardness. Delchrome C an excellent material, higher hardness and tough, for lower temp applications, like our aircooled engines, before someone says the engine gets bloody hot, it doesn't when you compare it to where Stellite can be used. What I also found out is that the companys making hard facing materials, work very closely together to reduce fake stuff that can be had out there. It was the only time I have seen a welding machine and huge purpose made chuck move independently of each other to apply weld to a huge industrial valve seat.

Ken, I thought even you could work that one out, as I have said before, ease of manufacture, the tooling was also old resulting in too much additional material to be removed in the grinding stage, that is why we sell plus 0.020'' tappets. It also takes away the loss in processing due to incorrect braze penetration when brazing, its not an upgrade - very early tappets were one piece cast iron, so nothing new. The material will be the same as the old tappet tip, so again no real upgrade.
Click to expand...

I see. Your tooling was worn out. Why is it that I get the same smell here as when I ride past a dairy farm?
 
RGM Cam followers - Lifters
RGM Cam followers - Lifters
 
grandpaul said:
Megacycle will re-profile stock followers for use with performance cams.

Cams were introduced to this thread, and the OP asked for suggestions.
Click to expand...

Cams were only introduced to the discussion due to their compatibility with alternative types of lifter (namely BSA lifters).

As you say, megacycle reprofile stock lifters, they are not a supplier of alternative lifters. I’m not picking an argument with you GP, just trying to clarify, as your post could easily be misread as suggesting megacycle is an alternative supplier of lifters.
 
Madnorton said:
Nige, you're welcome and I will have the drawing out for you to measure against, if they are not right then you can go through them to find ones that suit. 0.0005'' from top to bottom is well within spec. Considering the machining accuracy of the cam tunnels is nowhere near the tappet tolerance on the old barrels, coupled with the tolerances on the two cases for the cam bushes in relation to each other, it can become a bit like Krypton tuning a tractor. New items made on some of the latest CNC machines is accurate beyond belief, it can even eliminate a human error of the forging or casting placement in the jig.

Fitting new tappets in a used barrel is lottery anyway - can you measure the play, do you know what it should be.

The new one piece Delchrome C tappets were poured this week, that's the easy part, grinding them is whole different story. That is why I had 9 grinding companies refuse to even quote for the final grind. After a visit to the supplier we had to decide, as with any engineering parts that run together, which was sacrificial, followers or cam, the cam lost as it is the cheapest part.
Click to expand...

When will these revised followers be available to order?
 
grandpaul said:
Megacycle will re-profile stock followers for use with performance cams.

Cams were introduced to this thread, and the OP asked for suggestions.
Click to expand...


Difficult to leave cams out of this really! Guess why I need new followers?

I don't need old followers reground, I need another set of new flat followers to use another cam I have, at least temporarily.

I have 3 that might be reground flat! Finding a 4th or a pair of used ones than need grinding might help.

I also have four assymentrically ground ones which might be recoverable and they will be going with the cam for analysis, and potential recovery.

The problem is that unlike those who simply will not put the engine together with parts that may not be hard enough, I have the racers urgency! Season starts in 3 months!

Revised parts from AN might be just what I need, but would they be available to me in time?

Les Emery? I vowed never to go there again back in the late '70s
 
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