Retiring from Norton ownership

Fast Eddie · Oct 16, 2023

998cc said:
I am currently building a Vincent Rapide for a friend. He is in his 80's and has not ridden this bike since the 1960's. He is looking forward to piloting it with an attached sidecar.
Russ

That’s what I wanna do when I’m in my 80s !!

MexicoMike · Oct 16, 2023

I'm doing the opposite - selling my "modern bikes" because I no longer like how big/heavy they are. So I'm selling my BMW R9T, My BMW R1200RS, and my Kawasaki Z900RS Cafe. The "replacement" for the Kawasaki is my recently acquired 1976 Honda CB400F...which is way more fun to ride than those other three bikes. I'm fine to buy a NEW motorcycle but that means "new to me," not "new" as in year of manufacture. I am no longer interested in motorcycles that do not have carburetors or any that weigh more than 450 lbs. The Norton, of course, fits well within that criteria!

worntorn · Oct 16, 2023

With some work you can get the Commandos down to around 300 pounds.
There is no new mid size displacement road bike available at that weight.

Even a Ninja 250 is quite a bit heavier. It is listed at 352 lbs dry. They only make about 13 foot lbs of torque.

I agree, as we age it is best to find or make lighter bikes.
They accelerate harder, handle better, stop faster and are so much easier to move around the shop.

An elderly friend has had 3 bikes tip over in the shop this year. The first two went away from him, the last one fell on him. He was alone and spent quite awhile painfully wriggling out from under it.

Glen

ashman · Oct 16, 2023

My 850 Featherbed is a very light weight with the way I built it, on the last rebuild myself and a mate lifted it up while the wife moved the work table out from under it and we put it down on the ground, my 2016 Thuxton is a heavy bike in weight wise but all the weight is down low and it feels light to ride, is easy to push around the shed when I am going out on it, but one day it fell off the side stand and I tell you it was heavy lifting it back up on its wheels, but going to a smaller less powerful bike is not the answer as some smaller bikes can feel as heavy as the bigger bikes, you just got to find the right one, I love the torque of my Thruxton and as I say it feels light when riding, down sizing is not on my plans no matter how old I get, 65 soon and I still ride the same as when I first started to ride my Norton at 17, I haven't changed my ways but I do ride more smarter, still a hoon when I know I can get away with it lol.
But I still ride my CRF450X Honda dirt bike, now that's a light weight bike with lots of get up and go, love playing in the dirt have always owned a dirt bike since I was 15.

Ashley

Richard Tool · Oct 16, 2023

worntorn said:
With some work you can get the Commandos down to around 300 pounds.
There is no new mid size displacement road bike available at that weight.

Even a Ninja 250 is quite a bit heavier. It is listed at 352 lbs dry. They only make about 13 foot lbs of torque.

I agree, as we age it is best to find or make lighter bikes.
They accelerate harder, handle better, stop faster and are so much easier to move around the shop.

An elderly friend has had 3 bikes tip over in the shop this year. The first two went away from him, the last one fell on him. He was alone and spent quite awhile painfully wriggling out from under it.

Glen

This was part of the reason for selling my ST1300 . Big and heavy to move around . Once rolling it was as nimble as could be .

milfordite · Oct 16, 2023

MexicoMike said:
I'm doing the opposite - selling my "modern bikes" because I no longer like how big/heavy they are. So I'm selling my BMW R9T, My BMW R1200RS, and my Kawasaki Z900RS Cafe. The "replacement" for the Kawasaki is my recently acquired 1976 Honda CB400F...which is way more fun to ride than those other three bikes. I'm fine to buy a NEW motorcycle but that means "new to me," not "new" as in year of manufacture. I am no longer interested in motorcycles that do not have carburetors or any that weigh more than 450 lbs. The Norton, of course, fits well within that criteria!

I'm with you. Only modern bike in the fleet now is a 2016 Triumph Bonneville. Not light, but easy to use and the missus loves it. Just bought a 93 R100GS. Good allrounder, parts are available, easy to work on.

ILLF8ED · Oct 16, 2023

998cc said:
So sorry to hear, David. Will the NorCal section continue?
Russ

If you mean will the NCNOC club continue, the answer is yes.

Onder · Oct 16, 2023

Sunday I rode out on my Enfield Rickman. Hadn't been on it all this season. Came home and went out on its close relation the Enfield Interceptor. Same power unit in both bikes. But what a difference. The Rickman is 365 dry the Inter
is 426. Rickman is as handy as a 350. Noticed the clocks were off as I rode down the B road. Actually I was going 10mph
faster without noticing.
Modern bikes are just too heavy and there is just no need for that with all the weight saving abilities available now.

Fast Eddie · Oct 17, 2023

Onder said:
Modern bikes are just too heavy and there is just no need for that with all the weight saving abilities available now.

That’s been my gripe for many years. I know the reason is a combination of increased tech (E starts, ABS, etc) and cost vs benefit from the manufactures perspective. They’d argue that making, say, a modern Bonneville lighter would increase cost and reduce sales.

Nevertheless it bugs me!

My Dad had to sell his Hinckley Bonnie as it got too heavy for him. Instead he ‘commandeered’ my ‘68 Bonnie !

50 years of progress and the old one… with its iron barrels, steel everywhere, no plastic, etc… is lighter, a lot lighter.

Just seems ironic to me.

seattle##gs · Oct 17, 2023

A friend has a 2005 road king and a new RE. The 850 Commando is still the favorite by far.

jan nelder · Oct 17, 2023

Bonhams auction on Sunday at Stafford, UK, saw a touring Rapide sell for £20k, and the new youngish owner stuck it on FB to show his ‘bargain’ off. Big change from before Covid prices, but then I thought they were over -valued then.

Onder · Oct 17, 2023

Us old types have to ask: how knackered was it? Might be well polished but a mechanical dog. A worn out Vincent isn't
going to be a financial deal. Of course, not too different than any other old bike.

Onder · Oct 17, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
That’s been my gripe for many years. I know the reason is a combination of increased tech (E starts, ABS, etc) and cost vs benefit from the manufactures perspective. They’d argue that making, say, a modern Bonneville lighter would increase cost and reduce sales.

Nevertheless it bugs me!

My Dad had to sell his Hinckley Bonnie as it got too heavy for him. Instead he ‘commandeered’ my ‘68 Bonnie !

50 years of progress and the old one… with its iron barrels, steel everywhere, no plastic, etc… is lighter, a lot lighter.

Just seems ironic to me.

My Rickman's weight savings comes from replacing the stock guards ,seat, tank, rims and hubs with lighter. Body parts are all glass fibre. Take a 1970 Triumph seat and weigh it. It is amazingly heavy. Well, just ask Ludwig about weight savings. You might not go to his extremes and reach his final dry weight but you can take off 50 pounds which makes a big difference.

Fast Eddie · Oct 17, 2023

Onder said:
Us old types have to ask: how knackered was it? Might be well polished but a mechanical dog. A worn out Vincent isn't
going to be a financial deal. Of course, not too different than any other old bike.

That’s what I thought… until I did one… with which, I learnt, it is very, very different.…!

cash · Oct 17, 2023

SteveA said:
There is a change in the classic car market. Based on a fear of not being able to run with modern traffic.

My MG ZA Magnette is very much original spec. But even as an owner for 41 years I am considering upgrades I didn't want to do years ago.

But the popular approach for the Magnette, and its sports car sister the MGA, is to drop in a larger engine from a related model going from 1500 to typically 1800 (MGB based, and readily available). Modifications of this sort remain unobtrusive. Some go as far as 2 litre twin cams or V8s, but this poses problems in certain countries like France, or anywhere that road registration rules limit the scope of change.

A related bigger bore 4 cyclinder doesn't affect the looks and does give a more sprightly vehicle, and when coupled with a suitable gearbox and rear axle ratio can make the car more pleasurable at the apparently 'obligatory' 70mph (110kmph) cruise speed. A car with mechanical mods used to have a lower value than an original car, now people steer clear of original spec cars!

Running boards tend to be fitted to earlier cars, mostly pre-WW2 that not only don't cruise at 70, they don't stop that well either, and donor upgrade parts are not really available. Your modern owner is a bit wary of all of this. And unlike a bike, it cannot be considered a suitable ornament for the house! They take up a lot of space.

And they rust.

B+Bogus · Oct 17, 2023

worntorn said:
With some work you can get the Commandos down to around 300 pounds.
There is no new mid size displacement road bike available at that weight.

Glen

I think we're all here because the Commando is the most practical classic around, for reasons I don't need to spell out.
When I overtook a guy riding an Aprilia RSV Mille a while back, my grin remained for days afterwards.

It would have been good if Norton had added a bit more weight around the gearbox components, but nothing's perfect.

worntorn · Oct 17, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
That’s been my gripe for many years. I know the reason is a combination of increased tech (E starts, ABS, etc) and cost vs benefit from the manufactures perspective. They’d argue that making, say, a modern Bonneville lighter would increase cost and reduce sales.

Nevertheless it bugs me!

My Dad had to sell his Hinckley Bonnie as it got too heavy for him. Instead he ‘commandeered’ my ‘68 Bonnie !

50 years of progress and the old one… with its iron barrels, steel everywhere, no plastic, etc… is lighter, a lot lighter.

Just seems ironic to me.

Those AC Bonnies were heavy reliable lunkers.
The 1200 cc version gives a lot more power and a bit less weight. I don't know why the t120 Bonnies are still so much heavier than the Thruxton 1200. Triumph has the 2023 Thruxton down to 434 lbs dry now, not bad for a 1200 cc motorcycle with 100 + bhp. When I was a young guy 1200 cc bikes were Harley Electra Glides that weighed a ton and had all of 50 bhp.
Some things have gotten lighter and better!

Triumph has a new 400 coming out. This is a very light bike at around 370 lbs curb weight. I believe the performance of it will roughly equal a Triumph Bonneville of the 1960s and of course you get electric start, good brakes, 6 gears, low vibes, minimal maintenance needs, long life engine and all of the other mod cons. Not expensive either, about 6 grand CDN. (3500 gdp)
If I can't get my arm strength back in my damaged left arm, I might try one of these 400s. They are much lighter than the 650 Goldstar or 650 RE, two other old man bikes I've been looking at.

Fast Eddie · Oct 17, 2023

worntorn said:
Those AC Bonnies were heavy reliable lunkers.
The 1200 cc version gives a lot more power and a bit less weight. I don't know why the t120 Bonnies are still so much heavier than the Thruxton 1200. Triumph has the 2023 Thruxton down to 434 lbs dry now, not bad for a 1200 cc motorcycle with 100 + bhp. When I was a young guy 1200 cc bikes were Harley Electra Glides that weighed a ton and had all of 50 bhp.
Some things have gotten lighter and better!

Triumph has a new 400 coming out. This is a very light bike at around 370 lbs curb weight. I believe the performance of it will roughly equal a Triumph Bonneville of the 1960s and of course you get electric start, good brakes, 6 gears, low vibes, minimal maintenance needs, long life engine and all of the other mod cons. Not expensive either, about 6 grand CDN. (3500 gdp)
If I can't get my arm strength back in my damaged left arm, I might try one of these 400s. They are much lighter than the 650 Goldstar or 650 RE, two other old man bikes I've been looking at.

The Triumph 400s are a bit more than that Glen at £4,995-£5,595.

They do look light and lively though. My worry would be how revvy is the motor? That’s what I didn’t like about the CCM GP450 which was otherwise a really clever, light and capable bike.

I agree about the modern T120s, I just cannot work out how / why they’re so much heavier than the Thruxton, Scrambler or Speed twin ?!

worntorn · Oct 17, 2023

They are listed here on the Triumph Canada site at $5995 CDN. We tend to pay less as Triumph knows just how poor and cheap us Canucks are!
One review of the 400 stated that it revved very nicely to 8,000, I guess around short stroke Manx level, which seems plenty high for a single?
The reviewer said the engine was tuned/geared for greatest pull between 50 mph and 70 mph for passing power.
That makes a lot of sense. He also said it managed an easy 80 mph and pulled on to 90 but started to show some vibration there.
I suspect the vibes weren't that great as modern reviewers have generally never ridden an old paint shaker from the 60s!
In any case 70 mph all day is plenty. Much more speed than that is just too tiring on this old body, unless on a fully faired bike.

Glen

Fast Eddie · Oct 17, 2023

worntorn said:
They are listed here on the Triumph Canada site at $5995 CDN. We tend to pay less as Triumph knows just how poor and cheap us Canucks are!
One review of the 400 stated that it revved very nicely to 8,000, I guess around short stroke Manx level, which seems plenty high for a single?
The reviewer said the engine was tuned/geared for greatest pull between 50 mph and 70 mph for passing power.
That makes a lot of sense. He also said it managed an easy 80 mph and pulled on to 90 but started to show some vibration there.
I suspect the vibes weren't that great as modern reviewers have generally never ridden an old paint shaker from the 60s!
In any case 70 mph all day is plenty. Much more speed than that is just too tiring on this old body, unless on a fully faired bike.

Glen

That sounds quite good … especially at ‘your’ price !

Retiring from Norton ownership

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