Rear Axle Puzzle

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swooshdave

swooshdave

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So I have a pile of parts and somehow they are suppose to make a rear wheel go 'round.

Rear Axle Puzzle


Ok, anyone have an idea how these are suppose to go together and what am I missing? A pic of them laid out in the right order would be great.

Axle didn't seem to want to screw into the dummy axle. Is it suppose to?
 
Swoosh,
Sorry I haven't got a layout picture for you to follow, but immediately I can see the duplex bearing in the brake hub is missing. The replacement parts should be a sealed item. That way Nortons obsession with felt seals is somewhat irrelvant. Next, the wheel axle very much screws into the brake hub dummy axle. There have been reports of new parts not being accurate in dimension, however if this is genuine old stuff I suggest it may be a thread foul up? Worth taking to a machinist who may be able to clean up with a tap and die. I'm rebuilding a hub assembly with new parts this week, if I can get time and photos I will post.

Mick
 
ML said:
Swoosh,
Sorry I haven't got a layout picture for you to follow, but immediately I can see the duplex bearing in the brake hub is missing. The replacement parts should be a sealed item. That way Nortons obsession with felt seals is somewhat irrelvant. Next, the wheel axle very much screws into the brake hub dummy axle. There have been reports of new parts not being accurate in dimension, however if this is genuine old stuff I suggest it may be a thread foul up? Worth taking to a machinist who may be able to clean up with a tap and die. I'm rebuilding a hub assembly with new parts this week, if I can get time and photos I will post.

Mick
Click to expand...

I didn't force it so it may still go. The thing next to the dummy axle is a double bearing, I think.

A photo would be incredible. Thanks!
 
So the object next to the dummy axle is the double row bearing with the stepped spacer (23 on the diagram) pushed into it?

If memory serves me correctly, 1968-1970 axle and dummy axle have different thread pitch than 1971-1974. Could you have mis-matched parts? Check the pitch with a thread gauge to make sure one is not SAE fine while the other is CEI. As dicey as the axle design is, I would not use a dummy/axle combo that doesn't thread together easily.

In your picture, I see three felt "seals" (33 on the diagram), one flat seal retainer ( 30 on the diagram, two required), the bearing retaining circlip (47 on the diagram) and two felt seal dished washers (32 on the diagram). Hopefully you have the rest of the parts in the diagram

If you are using sealed bearings, then the felts and retainers are optional as are the dished washers.
 
Dave,
Is your rear wheel hub assembled or not? If the rear hub is assembled it is just a matter of assembling the spacers, brake drum, brake shoe housing, axle and dummy axle. If the rear hub is not assembled do that first, and notice that the bearing spacer has a short lip and a long lip, the short lip goes into the double row bearing and the long lip into the single row bearing, if you do it backwards it will bind up and not turn. I can get pictures, but my rear hub is assembled and I am not taking it apart.

Dave
69S
 
Ron L said:
So the object next to the dummy axle is the double row bearing with the stepped spacer (23 on the diagram) pushed into it?
Click to expand...

Rear Axle Puzzle



Ron L said:
If memory serves me correctly, 1968-1970 axle and dummy axle have different thread pitch than 1971-1974. Could you have mis-matched parts? Check the pitch with a thread gauge to make sure one is not SAE fine while the other is CEI. As dicey as the axle design is, I would not use a dummy/axle combo that doesn't thread together easily.

In your picture, I see three felt "seals" (33 on the diagram), one flat seal retainer ( 30 on the diagram, two required), the bearing retaining circlip (47 on the diagram) and two felt seal dished washers (32 on the diagram). Hopefully you have the rest of the parts in the diagram

If you are using sealed bearings, then the felts and retainers are optional as are the dished washers.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I have the rest of the parts. I just have a pile. I don't know if the parts are all of the same year. The threads at the end of the axle are a little iffy but they thread onto the nut just fine. I measured threads yesterday and got 20 for the axle and 18 I think for the end of the dummy. I'll recheck tonite.
 
DogT said:
Dave,
Is your rear wheel hub assembled or not? If the rear hub is assembled it is just a matter of assembling the spacers, brake drum, brake shoe housing, axle and dummy axle. If the rear hub is not assembled do that first, and notice that the bearing spacer has a short lip and a long lip, the short lip goes into the double row bearing and the long lip into the single row bearing, if you do it backwards it will bind up and not turn.
Click to expand...

Rear Axle Puzzle

Rear wheel is assembled (I'm pretty sure). Brake drum is empty.

DogT said:
I can get pictures, but my rear hub is assembled and I am not taking it apart.
Click to expand...

Jeez, LAB would. :mrgreen:
 
Let's give this a try.

From left to right AS IN THE ILLUSTRATION, and right to left AS ON THE BIKE (only stuff that is attached to, or threaded through, the rear axles):

2 (REAR AXLE)
35
4
34
5
27
33
31
26
HUB
29
26
30 (iffy)
45 (iffy) 30 & 45 seem to point to the same bit!
33
32
23
32
33
30
47
48
45
46
44 (DUMMY AXLE)
21
BRAKE DRUM & PLATE ASSEMBLIES
14
BRAKE TORQUE LUG (incorrect nomenclature, but not an axle bit)
35
3 (DUMMY AXLE NUT)

That's a whole lot of bits and bobs to allow that rear wheel to spin 'round...
 
Thanks for going to all that trouble GP.
I just put mine back together last week (or I would have provided photos) for Swoosh.
Now I can check and see if I did it right.
 
Swoosh,

What year is that bike, it makes a difference. The 69-70 did not have the setup like the previous schematics. I have a 69 and the rear assembly is a bit different than the 71-on. I can assemble my rear swingarm and all the brake parts and spacers and take a picture if you like. If your bike is a 71 or more, I can't help.

Dave
69S
 
DogT said:
Swoosh,

What year is that bike, it makes a difference. The 69-70 did not have the setup like the previous schematics. I have a 69 and the rear assembly is a bit different than the 71-on. I can assemble my rear swingarm and all the brake parts and spacers and take a picture if you like. If your bike is a 71 or more, I can't help.

Dave
69S
Click to expand...

Still working on the 72. Thanks for the offer.
 
And more info.

As some of you may know the early axles and stub axles are Cycle Thread (CEI) which in this case is 18tpi. Which is one of my problems. The stub axle I have is early and won't fit my axle.

Rear Axle Puzzle


Rear Axle Puzzle

And here's the later axle. At 20tpi.

Anyone want to trade stub axles? :mrgreen:
 
I knew a girl once w/ 18 CEI
I tried and tried w/ my 20 SAE to no avail.
Now that explains everything :oops:
Just tried to cheer you up Dave now that the problem is resolved.
Marshal
 
Ok, so I got more rear axle parts and thought it would all just go together. Right.

So I drop the dummy axle in the drum and it doesn't fit. It won't go down far enough and there is no way to get the bearing in. :evil:
Rear Axle Puzzle

Rear Axle Puzzle


What am I doing wrong? It's the right dummy axle, could the brake drum be wrong? Where earlier ones different?
 
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