Really not another oil thread

[lomaxcm]

I can't remember what I used in my 1974 850 Commando and am pondering what to use in my 73 850 Commando.

I am thinking Mobil 1 15-50 for the engine and primary as it is readily available and Mobil 1 75-140 just because I have some.

Any real reasons NOT to use this? Any other recommendations for oils easy to find here in the states? Not interested in Red line or Amzoil PLEASE. :roll:

I use BMW oils in my BMW and Honda oils in my Honda's and Motorex in my KTM and Guzzis and need to settle on something for the fine British motor scooter.

Marc

 

[htown16]

Here's what I use in all my Brit bikes.
Valvolene 20w/50 4 stroke motorcycle oil in engine
Valvolene high performance 80/90 gear oil in gear box
ATF in primary
All relatively cheap and readily available at the local auto parts store. Important because I like to change it at least as often as 1000 miles and sometimes less.

 

[Torontonian]

I'd go with the Mobil 1 Synthetic 15-50 W seeing as you have it. I ran it for a year ,needlessly stripped the engine down one cold snowy bored to death winter to find No Wear ! Pricey , resolve all leakage issues first.

 

[lomaxcm]

Great replies here and from a couple of my local Norton Guru's. I now have a plan. :twisted: Go ahead and discuss a silly oil thread if you all get bored.

Marc

 

[Torontonian]

So bored. Snow so thick. Did you know German Scientists had to scramble to create synthetic after the Allies dropped bombs all over the oil refinerys ?

 

[comnoz]

I ran 15-50 Mobil 1 for years. No problems.
Then I switched to Mobil 1 20-50 v-twin oil. The oil consumption dropped considerably as the 20-50 is a lot thicker. It also has more ZDDP. Jim

 

[Foxy]

So bored. Snow so thick. Did you know German Scientists had to scramble to create synthetic after the Allies dropped bombs all over the oil refinerys ?

Thanks, didnt know that!!

 

[Steve G.]

Mr. oil here. Must have enough in my garage to run a small bike shop. For my Nortons, it's pretty simple. Either Pennzoil 20W-50 motorcycle API spec SG, or, Castrol 20W-50 GP motorcycle API spec SG. Use the same in the primary. Gearbox, use API spec GL-5, usually 80W-90, or 75W-90 if I get a deal. 140W in the swingarm. 20W in the forks.

I love full synthetic, but see no need for use in the Norton, as it really doesn't challenge a modern oil at all. Save the synthetic for the 130+ hp superbikes with wet clutch, and shared gearbox lubrication.

 

[JimC]

After reading all about oil for Nortons for years, I came to the conclusion it's a case of oil versus no oil, use oil. The Norton specific test that was done some years ago gave me an indication some oils are better than others.

I do know you can get the oil hot enough to have damage to valve guides and seats if you take part in a slow running Christmas toy run. After that head rebuild I went with a high grade (nameless) synthetic and an oil cooler. No problems since. Of course, I quit running in toy runs.

Not interested in Red line or Amzoil PLEASE. :roll:

So, what's wrong with Redline?

 

[lomaxcm]

So, what's wrong with Redline?

Absolutely nothing, Good oil, but I cannot stop in my local Walmart or auto parts store and get it. I like to use something that is easy to find when on the road and maybe need a qt.

Marc

 

[norton73]

I use Valvoline 50w racing oil in the motor, and silkolene light gear oil in the primary, and a good dino 90wt in the trans.

The silkolene is designed (?) for use in 2 smoke transmission and wet clutches. Although the Norton is supposed to be a "dry" clutch, oil still seeems to get there. I started using the silkolene in my Beta trials bike which cured a sticking clutch issue. I then used it in my Bultaco trials bike and the clutch improved on it too, along with the shifting. The Bul also uses a primary chain. Using the silkolene in the Norton primary seems to work great, finding neutral is easier, and the clutch seems very happy.

 

[andychain]

Dry clutch in a Commando ????????

TQF in the primary is good but better in the gearbox, as recommended by Hewland.

Andy

 

[1up3down]

Dry clutch in a Commando ????????

yes, in fact one of the reasons for switching from chain to belt primary is to have a totally dry primary,
no more oil contaminating the clutch plates or leaking out between the chain cases

every production Norton made was designed for operation with a dry clutch hub and plates, and only
the proximity to the primary chain's lube caused so much otherwise unneeded routine cleanings

 

[JimC]

Dry clutch in a Commando ????????

yes, in fact one of the reasons for switching from chain to belt primary is to have a totally dry primary,
no more oil contaminating the clutch plates or leaking out between the chain cases

every production Norton made was designed for operation with a dry clutch hub and plates, and only
the proximity to the primary chain's lube caused so much otherwise unneeded routine cleanings

+1 on the dry clutch. ++1 on no oil in the primary. The switch from chains to belts in the primary is one of the better mods to do to your Commando.

 

[mike996]

Nortons were designed for a dry clutch... ???

So the designers specified a "dry" clutch, installed it in a oil-lubricated chain case and didn't ever realize that it might get oil on it? Hmmm, seems a bit difficult to believe.

The clutch is a multiplate clutch, just like the multiplate clutches that are used in car automatic trannys and are immersed in ATF or like other motorcycle multiplate clutches that operate immersed in eng oil. There is no difference so why is there this view that the clutch was intended to be dry?

Further, IF it really was intended to be dry and the designers/builders were so stupid that they really believed the oil in the chaincase, despite being flung hither and yon by the chain, would somehow NEVER contaminate the clutch discs, all it would take from the first instant someone realized that oil COULD get on the plates, is a change in clutch material. (Whew, that was a too-long sentence!)

IMO It's another concern about a non-existant issue...

 

[nortonspeed]

no more oil contaminating the clutch plates

Substantial contamination comes from the gearbox via the mainshaft onto the clutch plates. Prefer to fit a clutch-rod-seal, cheap but very effective :wink:

 

[lrutt]

Nortons were designed for a dry clutch... ???

So the designers specified a "dry" clutch, installed it in a oil-lubricated chain case and didn't ever realize that it might get oil on it? Hmmm, seems a bit difficult to believe.

The clutch is a multiplate clutch, just like the multiplate clutches that are used in car automatic trannys and are immersed in ATF or like other motorcycle multiplate clutches that operate immersed in eng oil. There is no difference so why is there this view that the clutch was intended to be dry?

Further, IF it really was intended to be dry and the designers/builders were so stupid that they really believed the oil in the chaincase, despite being flung hither and yon by the chain, would somehow NEVER contaminate the clutch discs, all it would take from the first instant someone realized that oil COULD get on the plates, is a change in clutch material. (Whew, that was a too-long sentence!)

IMO It's another concern about a non-existant issue...

I can truly say my clutch is NOT IMMERSED in oil. Yes there is a small amount of oil (200cc or so) in the chain case and the chain just kisses that oil. But that is far from immersing the clutch in oil. No it's not totally dry but it certainly is not a wet clutch either like most all other bikes. Honestly, since I changed from the POS Barnett clutch pack back to the good old bronzed plates I have had absolutely ZERO problems.

As for oil, I've gone with the Shell Rotella 5w40 T6 syn diesel oil in ALL my bikes, new and old. I was concerned about this slightly lighter weight in the old brits but I've not seen any problems so far. No increase in usage, no undue extra leaking, she still wet sumps as before, no more no less. It's cheap, has all the right properties, is MA rated, readily available, and I have to only stock 1 oil type. I'm happy.

 

[Hobot]

My go to oil for tractors, lawnmowers and Commando's and Suzuki is Rotella 15/40 which does leak and use up more than 20/50 is all. Main oil protection issue in our engines is to keep rpm up in the cam breakin oil wedge surfing range over 2000 rpm and try to get to full heat before shut down w/o much idle time to plate out and leave some nano thin ZADP protective layer that gets wiped off below 2000 rpm and only forms if friction surfaces over boiling temp hot. We want to see black oil as that means its doing its job to keep friction size particles suspended to flush out on changes. Main friction wear saving feature in our engines is the crank sludge trap not the regular after thought oil filters.

 

[concours]

So bored. Snow so thick. Did you know German Scientists had to scramble to create synthetic after the Allies dropped bombs all over the oil refinerys ?

Thanks, didnt know that!!

The legend I heard was that "STP" like oil additive was developed to hasten the ability to start up recip aircraft engines and get the them airborn FASTER (without as much warm-up time) to reduce the aircraft destroyed on the ground in surprise raids. Can anyone substantiate? Or Myth? :?:

 

[marksterrtt]

Hobot, you might want to read up on the current Rotella diesel formula (Delo also) as they have dropped the zddp level to a point where it is no longer adequate for our older design cam/tappet engines.

There are a lot of oils with good additive packages for our older bikes, some bike specific and some vintage flat tappet auto oils that have good zddp levels of at least 1200 ppm or better, but 1200 would be about the minimum we would like to see from what I've read.

Mobil V-twin 20-50, Redline, Amsoil and especially Spectro m/c oils all have good levels of zddp. As does Bradpenn, Joe Gibbs racing among others, and both JG and Bradpenn have break-in oils with even higher levels of zddp for that all important cam to tappet interface at initial start up and the first couple hundred miles. Use their high zddp assembly lube also. The first 3 oils mentioned have between 1200-1600 ppm zddp (give or take) while the Spectro was up around 1800 ppm. Castrol (if I remember right) was low man on this totem pole and didn't seem to impress the particular author I was reading.

More isn't always better either as I take from my reading that 2000 ppm zddp should be about max and there is also a correlation between the detergent package and the amount of zddp required....Mark