Punch list

o0norton0o said:

In your case, you may not perform as many different functions in your space as I do. Assembly doesn't take up the same amounts of space as fabrication, painting, and all the other stuff I do for a living. Yeah, you have some wrenches to wipe off and put away.

Today, I'm rebuilding the extra stainless steel clutch cables that I have to have a traveling extra one. Ordering a new one from AN doesn't take as much space, nor require tools or a clean up afterward...

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Good show.

Carry on...

JimC said:

What’s your problem? Trying to justify sloppiness?

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Jim, Seeing people who disagree with you as having a problem is narcissitic.

Dave had a picture of some tools out on the assembly table because he's not done with his work yet. Someone tells him that he's sloppy, then you make the assertion that their's a correlation between a person's skill set and their neatness. That's just your opinion which I don't share. It's not a problem for me, nor should it be for you, if I disagree with you.

While I think neatness and being organized can definately be a good thing, I don't think the lack of neatness correlates with less skill, less knowledge, or less of anything other than time and money. I also think the inverse isn't true either. Just because you are neat and tidy and put all your wrenches back in their spot on a daily basis that doesn't mean you have great knowledge or great skill.

My opinion is that neatness doesn't corellate with skill... simple

I thought starting a list was highly organized. Well, it is for me!

If I had a job where I was paid by the hour I know a few of those hours would be spent cleaning up.

One of my problems (amongst many) is that I don’t know what to do with stuff that doesn’t have a home. Let’s saw you take something off the bike. Do you put it back on the bike even if you’re not done working on it?

What started this was a simple one line, tongue in cheek, throw away comment intended to be mildly humorous.

That’s all!

IMHO there really isn’t anything to be gained by continuing this debate past the 3 pages it’s already run. Even less by getting all emotional and personal.

Some people like tidy. And they’ve made their case.

Some people don’t. And they’ve made their case.

The Earth will continue to revolve...

Swoosh will continue to cross jobs off his punch list...

swooshdave said:

I thought starting a list was highly organized. Well, it is for me!

If I had a job where I was paid by the hour I know a few of those hours would be spent cleaning up.

One of my problems (amongst many) is that I don’t know what to do with stuff that doesn’t have a home. Let’s saw you take something off the bike. Do you put it back on the bike even if you’re not done working on it?

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Swoosh I have shelves and a collection of trays and plastic containers that I use for this. If I’ve not got a bike ‘in process’ they’re all empty. But most of the time they’re occupied !

swooshdave said:

I thought starting a list was highly organized. Well, it is for me!

If I had a job where I was paid by the hour I know a few of those hours would be spent cleaning up.

One of my problems (amongst many) is that I don’t know what to do with stuff that doesn’t have a home. Let’s saw you take something off the bike. Do you put it back on the bike even if you’re not done working on it?

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Many times, rather than have a pile of nuts and washers on the bench, I'll screw them back on where they belong.

I start filling my empty coffee cans with take-off fasteners & other small items....Larger stuff goes into generic totes. Believe it or not I remember which one has what providing the wife doesn't go foraging & moving things, if that happens it's like the ground opened up and swallowed it...gone without a trace. Caught her in an open gun safe stashing some of her ebay crap...Bubba that dog don't hunt. A man needs two homes to live in a truly happy state. 1) For family-short visits & meals. 2) To live in with bikes, tools, his guns, & other things sacred to his very existence...Oh, his dog, beer, single malt, snacks.

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Please note bench, I've been working on keeping the bench clean.

Nice tidy bench. Soothing just to look at.

What you doing there then? They don’t look like the ‘usual’ BSA lifters. Triumph?

Don't want to hijack Dave's thread, I'll start another.

Hortons Norton said:

Don't want to hijack Dave's thread, I'll start another.

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Lord son, that horse done left the barn days ago.

And then there was both John's Cycle and Poke's Cycle in Seattle. Just sayin.

gortnipper said:

And then there was both John's Cycle and Poke's Cycle in Seattle. Just sayin.

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I will have to find the invoice but fairly sure my 750 which I bought from Seattle had a sizeable bill from Johns Cycle.

o0norton0o said:

While I think neatness and being organized can definately be a good thing, I don't think the lack of neatness correlates with less skill, less knowledge, or less of anything other than time and money. I also think the inverse isn't true either. Just because you are neat and tidy and put all your wrenches back in their spot on a daily basis that doesn't mean you have great knowledge or great skill. My opinion is that neatness doesn't corellate with skill... simple

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I am in agreement. Only since my recent (as yet incomplete) move to a much smaller garage, have I taken to being considerably neater and tidier; it hasn't changed my skill level though. I just had so much space before, I wasn't careful to maximize the use of it.

In the local group we have one fellow who builds complete replicas from scratch, draws plans cuts gears, makes patterns, machines cases, does heat treating, makes items like carbs and superchargers from raw metal. He manufactures almost everything other than tires right in his 600 sq ft basement machine shop.
His shop is not neat when he's rolling, but he gets a tremendous amount of very intricate work done every day.
The complete projects generally take about 18 months.

We also have a member who we joke is " beyond mechanically inept, he is mechanically inert"
His shop is beyond tidy, it is fit for a magazine cover. There is virtually no product coming from it.
If you made the decision to hire one or the other to do motorcycle work based on tidyness level, you would get the wrong guy with these two.
So maybe there is a correlation between tidyness and quality but it's a reverse one!

Part of Dan's shop at a tidy moment. When he's producing it doesn't look like this. Stuff is scattered around, and there is a lot of stuff!
Somehow he knows where all of it is at any given time.





Typical end product- Supercharged Velocette Roarer, only 1 other Roarer exists. This one recently sold to the Solvang Museum for $70,000 US.

swooshdave said:

One of my problems (amongst many) is that I don’t know what to do with stuff that doesn’t have a home. Let’s saw you take something off the bike. Do you put it back on the bike even if you’re not done working on it?

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What works for me is to box them, usually in labeled zip lock baggies. Like, "gearbox", "primary", etc. Nuts, bolts, shims etc. Footrest and exhaust hanger hardware gets reattached so I don't lose them.

I guess I'm organized.?

The bloke I was apprenticed to was an ex ww2 RAF airframe fitter
He had zero tolerance for people and zero tolerance in his work
He never tidied up until the end of the job, if he caught you putting stuff back he would go mad
Or if he saw you with a broom he would say stop wasting time,get on with the job
His workmanship was second to none he could make/repair improve absolutely anything
And when you worked for him everything you did had to be perfect
He never once uttered the words "that's close enough" etc
Since that time I have worked alongside many people , some seem to own every tool known to man and keep the place spotless but can't put two Lego blocks together without a hammer and a tube of super glue !!
All the comments I have read here have merit because they are all opinions
What works for one person dosent necessarily work for another
Nobody is right and nobody is wrong

“I remember going to Matts shop back in 2009 when we were at the rally and seeing how organized he was. I even asked him is this how it always looked, and without hesitation he said yes.”

I’ll choose excellent craftsmanship and a tidy shop over excellent craftsmanship and a messy shop, every time. CNW is a perfect example of how a shop should be run.