Production Racer - Need Reference Bike

I have a 1971 Production Racer (genuine, not a replica) which was first purchased by Gus Kuhn and then sold to Ian Kennedy in late '71. It was raced in the UK by Ron Wittich for a couple of years and then sat in Ian's shop as a display until I bought it from him in 2017. I'm preparing to put it back in working order, don't wish to restore it or change anything but some things are missing or amiss- who has an original that would be willing to let me go over it to determine what is correct for mine? Some items like the front brake hose are confounding in that it's different than the standard Commando hose. I'm missing a few other odds and ends that I'd like to get right rather than cobbling things together. Thanks!

YellowPeril said:

I have a 1971 Production Racer (genuine, not a replica) which was first purchased by Gus Kuhn and then sold to Ian Kennedy in late '71. It was raced in the UK by Ron Wittich for a couple of years and then sat in Ian's shop as a display until I bought it from him in 2017. I'm preparing to put it back in working order, don't wish to restore it or change anything but some things are missing or amiss- who has an original that would be willing to let me go over it to determine what is correct for mine? Some items like the front brake hose are confounding in that it's different than the standard Commando hose. I'm missing a few other odds and ends that I'd like to get right rather than cobbling things together. Thanks!

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I can’t help you sir, but good luck, that sounds fabulous!

Please do keep us updated, with pictures, there’s knowledgeable folk on here who could give you a lot of info just from pictures…

They were basically built to order with a variety of spec.s & options . And what was on the shelf . tho some would be in batches . On Spec .
So ONE machine although original and correct might not exactly match another . You dont want to get to pedantic .
use RACE SPEC. eqquipment and once your onto it things will start to come your way .
Norman White obviously would be a good place to start .

But 1971 magazines , race reports , etc etc , should help maybe . MOST as soon as they were out the door , were ' Race Prepped ' if racing .
as in upgrades on souch things ( maybe ) as Oil Line fittings ! Brake Hoses ! etc . , not that thats really TELLING you anything .

There must be P R parts number nutters about ? .

From the period photos I've seen, the brake hoses were similar to ones I had on a Rickman Trident with Lockheed Racing calipers & master cylinders; they were braided and sheathed in some kind of shiny black fibre reinforced vinyl, which was falling apart on mine. The fittings were also very different to standard Commando, being assembled from a number of parts. Early Ducati 750 GTs with Lockheed Racing kit used the same stuff, so I'm guessing the hoses may also have been Lockheed Racing parts?

I can't find a good enough period photo of the Norton kit, but this Ducati 750 GT shows what I mean. If anyone knows where I can source the correct components I'd like to hear from you!





Black sheathed stainless hoses are available, but I haven't seen those exact fittings. That said, I haven't looked very hard recently.


This gives all the original PR part numbers. One thing I struggled to find was correct 'tucked-in' header pipes. A certain Emporium north of Birmingham lists them against the PR part number, but when I phoned to order a set I was told theirs were just standard Roadster pipes

Technical Release N/3/12 gives the parts, with part numbers and pictures, used to convert a standard model to a Production Racer (750 racer)

Don't worry that this includes a '72 reference.

Yes on the brake hose you show in your photos above B+Bogus....except mine had an outer cover that disintegrated long ago, what's left is a 1/8" rubber tube covered in braided textile reinforcement. The ends appear to be 'field attachable' types rather than crimped, with a straight adapter on one end to 3/8-24 thread female to fit on to another adapter (I believe that's the caliper end) and a 90 degree on the other end to accommodate the angle of the clip-on style bars. I was thinking of having something custom made if I can find a vendor that can get close to what should be there.

The bike was missing the rear fender and tail light when I got it. I have studied the race kit diagram and just wonder how close that will get me to what was on the 'real' proddy racer. I am aware of the variability that comes along with each one being basically hand built and pulling from different baskets of parts along the way, I just want to avoid doing a bodge of this. I will study the links above and post some photos very soon, thanks in advance for help and encouragement!

Keith

Here's another question- it's been more than 20 years since I worked on Nortons, I did many restorations from nuts and bolts back in the 1990s but am not up on the latest and greatest when it comes to ignition and charging. This racer was wired for 'total loss' so the entire charging system was eliminated including the rotor and stator (presuably to save weight). I'd like to ride it on the road and make it as reliable as I can with an upgraded ignition and charging system. There seems to be a lot of debate around Boyer vs Trispark vs Pazon etc. I will need something to take the place of the charging electrics such as a Podtronics or Boyer Power Box as well I believe but have just gotten overwhelmed trying to decide what would be the best value for the money. Looking forward to sage advice on this subject!

I think the rear fender and number plate bracket are Fastback parts, the rear light bracket is a cut down Roadster number.
Electronic ignition choices...?
Maybe we could discuss what's the best oil?
Only kidding... my personal choice would be a Tri-spark as it's neater and gives the best idle (in my experience).
They're all good though

HAHA! I didn't think about how dumb that question could sound. I know the electrics have been discussed to death and the ignition choices are all pretty comparable. I'm thinking more about the charging system since I have none of the components and would like to get the best stator/rotor combo and make the rest as simple as possible.

the Man Himself in 1971 . There you have it ! .

Ah Well , maybe not , either .

1969



guess its a start , anyway . Put his name is SEARCH .


Id RACE PREP it , if I were you . who wants a hanger queen . Braided Stainless brake line for better brake & feel .
There should be a few holes & a bitr of lock wire around too , or its not authentic .

Better Authenic as raced rather'n showroom stock . Youve lost all its history , if you ' restore it standard ' .

Plug away in SEARCH and eventually it may come out of the woodwork . Try & find races entered , then reports
on those races , perhaps .Also WHO was the Entrant . / Rider . as theyre normally two differant things .

Its not the other bloke in ' Race of the Powerbikes ' on u tube ? https://www.youtube.com/@paulwilliams3984
Quite a bit of footage of a yellow P. R. Commando there ,

YellowPeril said:

Yes on the brake hose you show in your photos above B+Bogus....except mine had an outer cover that disintegrated long ago, what's left is a 1/8" rubber tube covered in braided textile reinforcement. The ends appear to be 'field attachable' types rather than crimped, with a straight adapter on one end to 3/8-24 thread female to fit on to another adapter (I believe that's the caliper end) and a 90 degree on the other end to accommodate the angle of the clip-on style bars. I was thinking of having something custom made if I can find a vendor that can get close to what should be there.

The bike was missing the rear fender and tail light when I got it. I have studied the race kit diagram and just wonder how close that will get me to what was on the 'real' proddy racer. I am aware of the variability that comes along with each one being basically hand built and pulling from different baskets of parts along the way, I just want to avoid doing a bodge of this. I will study the links above and post some photos very soon, thanks in advance for help and encouragement!

Keith

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If you want to stick close to the original parts, you can just buy the PR parts from Andover Norton. Joe Seifert has made a serious effort to make many of the parts available again, either from the original drawings or maybe copied from his personal 1970 PR. It looks like the brake line you need for the original single disk setup is available from them, as shown here. This is the same site B-Bogus posted a link to for the dual disk setup.


On another subject, I assume you have a copy of the TR N3/12 that hybridracer mentioned. It's invaluable. If you don't have it, you might be able to find a digital copy on-line, but if not, PM me with your email, and I'll send one. Pictures and specs for the PR from various factory ad brochures are also useful. I've attached the ones I have below. I don't want to hijack your thread, but I do have some other articles about PRs that I've scanned, and if you think they might help you, I'd be happy to post them here, or email them to you. I've posted some of this info here before, but mostly a lot of years ago, so a lot of it is probably gone or archived by now. I also have pictures of my 1971 PR that might help with some details, but I raced it for 20 years, and most of the good pictures are of it in heavily modified condition, so they probably wouldn't be that much use to you. After I quit racing 20 years ago, I sold it to a friend who restored it, and now it's in a private museum, so I don't have easy access to it for any new pictures.









Ken

Or, for something different, you could go with the styling from the Butcher/White JPN racer.




Ken

You might find this bit interesting too. Shortly after I bought my PR from Dan Gurney back in late 1971 or early 1972, I wrote to the factory and asked if they had any tuning information on them. This is what they sent me in return.





Sorry about the condition. I wasn't too careful with it back then.

Ken

Great info Ken
Unfortunately you've just killed what could have been a great oil thread!
The Commando racebikes still in competition that I'm aware of still run R40, but GTX in the primary is a new one to me.

Back to the electrics, I've used the Boyer Powerbox and been happy with it, but 'other brands are available'.
I think the Boyer is now a bit Old Tech - Tri-Spark and others do more sophisticated units, but I've no experience with them.

note too the 180cc fork oil, as discussed before.

Interesting detail; the later PR seat has a bolt-on seat pad, whereas the earlier cover is riveted across the back of the seat hump.

The '72 manual here:

YellowPeril said:

I have a 1971 Production Racer (genuine, not a replica) which was first purchased by Gus Kuhn and then sold to Ian Kennedy in late '71. It was raced in the UK by Ron Wittich for a couple of years and then sat in Ian's shop as a display until I bought it from him in 2017. I'm preparing to put it back in working order, don't wish to restore it or change anything but some things are missing or amiss- who has an original that would be willing to let me go over it to determine what is correct for mine? Some items like the front brake hose are confounding in that it's different than the standard Commando hose. I'm missing a few other odds and ends that I'd like to get right rather than cobbling things together. Thanks!

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I have an original 1971 PR. I you provide an e-mail address I can send you some pictures of the parts that are specific and hard to find. The rear fender for example. It looks like a chromed fastback fender but it's longer, wider and made from thin steel.

there were , i think , three tank size options , and a low hump & high hump seat back option , latters scarce as . just to be pedantic .

Matt Spencer said:

there were , i think , three tank size options , and a low hump & high hump seat back option , latters scarce as . just to be pedantic .

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As you said, three tank sizes



And two seat styles, one for the PR and one for the F750 kit.





Ken