Oil pressure at head

dgwilson · Aug 4, 2006

What should the range of oil pressure be at the head? I want to install a pressure gauge and want to know the best range to use.
Is it necesary to use an oil filled gauge or can any type handle the Norton Vibrations without rattling to pieces?

norbsa48503 · Aug 4, 2006

You will be needing a 100lb gage. Both oil filled and automotive types have been used for years. The auto type can be lighted. I use the oil filled, on certain days it will read about 5lbs without the bike running. If I was willing a slight pull of the rubber plug would relive the pressure. I think that the oil filled stands up to dew and rain better that the auto type. Here's a pic of my set up: http://groups.msn.com/Brit-Fe-Pics/shoe ... hotoID=196

Geoff · Aug 4, 2006

Looks like a nice job, but what is the hose used, I would like similar set up but worried about vibration causing problems on joints & routing hose to avoid chafing. Any failure at any point would be catastrophic! What is the principle of an oil filled gauge, I have not heard of these? That head steady is an ace job by the way!

79x100 · Aug 4, 2006

Glycerine filled manometers are quite widely used in industry to damp needle movement where pressures fluctuate or vibration is present ...On a Commando ? Surely some mistake

?

I assume that other fluids would have the same function.

norbsa48503 · Aug 4, 2006

We just use the teflon lined S.S. braided 1/8 I.D. line with Odicur clamps. If you go back to the site and look around there are more shots of the set up. I use one special fitting on the back of the gage long hex with a 45 degree swival fitting. This gets you beyod the headlight in a tidy way. See pic. on the site. I machine the brackets for others. But I never got sales of to a good start. When you start running this stainless line the routing must be right. It will cut right thru a gas line,tank, cable,frame, anything it touches. Without having control I just can't go there. Also to do it right you need to do the mod were you drill out the intake rocker shafts and kill off the line that links each side many can handle this job many can't even disassemble the system let alone re-build it. If you can take my caustic nature contact me I will try to help just don't go blaming me if your bikes down for longer than you think it should be. I broke my last set of rose colored glasses.

dgwilson · Aug 5, 2006

Steering stem gauge

I seem to remember seeing a pressure gauge that fitted onto the steering stem with the rubber stopper removed and the oil line coming up inside the steering stem tube. I understood that the oil pressure is taken from the left hand rocker banjo? What are the for & againsts?
What is the other machining of intake rocker shafts done for?

norbsa48503 · Aug 5, 2006

Stock set up has a cross over line. When you drill out the shafts oil just crosses thru this new path. The double banjo left over can feed a gage.
I think Debby bought one of gage set ups your speaking of maybe she could provide a product review.

debby · Aug 7, 2006

norbsa48503 said:
I broke my last set of rose colored glasses.

Like these?

Ebay Express has what you need. Free shipping too! What a deal huh?

Debby

fourperf · Aug 7, 2006

http://www.oldbritts.com/38_240010.html

dgwilson · Aug 7, 2006

Pressure gauge

Thanks for the link. thats the one I was looking for, a bit pricey but looks neat.

fourperf · Aug 8, 2006

Its nicely made, Fred does nice work

Mark

debby · Aug 8, 2006

I'm using the OldBritts kit too. A bit pricey but very nicely made, and I really like the mount. I bought the "upgraded" version that comes with a full set of SS rocker feed lines. The ones on the bike were black fuel line held on with cheap hose clamps. That's how the DPO did things :roll:

Fred's lines are very nicely made, fit perfectly, and have a clear vinyl jacket so no worries about sawing through things.

One problem I have is insufficient clearance between the standpipe and the front fender. On full compression the fender "kisses" the banjo and now I have a little ding on my fender

Not sure what to do about it, or if anyone else has the same problem. I don't see any way to shorten the standpipe any significant amount.

Debby

fourperf · Aug 8, 2006

you could turn down the end of the standpipe and the nut in a lathe. that might buy you 1/4 inch.

mark

79x100 · Aug 8, 2006

debby said:
One problem I have is insufficient clearance between the standpipe and the front fender. On full compression the fender "kisses" the banjo and now I have a little ding on my fender Not sure what to do about it, or if anyone else has the same problem. I don't see any way to shorten the standpipe any significant amount.

Debby

"Kissing the banjo" sounds like one of those victorian euphemisms to describe something that wouldn't be discussed in decent households ! :wink:

Have your forks been modified ? I would have thought that standard forks would go metal to metal internally before this could happen. Under what circumstances do they bottom out ?

debby · Aug 8, 2006

79x100 said:
"Kissing the banjo" sounds like one of those victorian euphemisms to describe something that wouldn't be discussed in decent households ! :wink:

Have your forks been modified ? I would have thought that standard forks would go metal to metal internally before this could happen. Under what circumstances do they bottom out ?

guys always have such dirty minds :!:

forks are stock other than Progressive Suspension springs. It only happens when I hit something hard, like a pothole (I try to avoid doing that!)

I'll have to measure and see how much travel I'm getting. It certainly makes it easy to measure! :lol:

Debby

fourperf · Aug 10, 2006

norbsa48503 said:
We just use the teflon lined S.S. braided 1/8 I.D. line with Odicur clamps. If you go back to the site and look around there are more shots of the set up. I use one special fitting on the back of the gage long hex with a 45 degree swival fitting. This gets you beyod the headlight in a tidy way. See pic. on the site. I machine the brackets for others. But I never got sales of to a good start. When you start running this stainless line the routing must be right. It will cut right thru a gas line,tank, cable,frame, anything it touches. Without having control I just can't go there. Also to do it right you need to do the mod were you drill out the intake rocker shafts and kill off the line that links each side many can handle this job many can't even disassemble the system let alone re-build it. If you can take my caustic nature contact me I will try to help just don't go blaming me if your bikes down for longer than you think it should be. I broke my last set of rose colored glasses.

Norbsa, what is the reason for having to do a mod to the rockers shaft when running an oil pressure guage on a double banjo bolt on the left side of the bike at the rocker cover?

My bike runs great after you hand L.A.B helped me with the timing the only issue that I have now is:

I have a o p guage on the double banjo bolt (with the stock oil line setup), when the bike is cold I have about 80 lbs of pressure at the guage but once it warms up at idle I have about 10 and at about 4000 rpm I have about 20-25 lbs.

I do have an anti sump valve installed whech is comprised of a ss ball that sits on a conical spring in a housing. When there is oil pressure the oil is passed passed the ball. I am not sure if that affects anythin.

Thanks

Mark

norbsa48503 · Aug 10, 2006

Mod not needed for the gage just run double banjo and the gage as you like. I have an 850 that has run for years with no idle OP once hot tryed shimming the releif to no avail so I just quit worrying about it. Still screaming after all these years. Good rule is 10 lbs per 1000 RPM Ignore the idle readings. As long as your pulling 40lbs at 4000RPM on a semi hot day no sweat. Gage only an indication of oil hotness anyway. It's not what the crank is seeing it's on the return side. Mod just cleans things up a bit. You may find reading up on your anti sump valve a good thing. Best practice ride alot. If you really like to be scarred put in a clear line after that valve of yours.

fourperf · Aug 10, 2006

norbsa48503 said:
Mod not needed for the gage just run double banjo and the gage as you like. I have an 850 that has run for years with no idle OP once hot tryed shimming the releif to no avail so I just quit worrying about it. Still screaming after all these years. Good rule is 10 lbs per 1000 RPM Ignore the idle readings. As long as your pulling 40lbs at 4000RPM on a semi hot day no sweat. Gage only an indication of oil hotness anyway. It's not what the crank is seeing it's on the return side. Mod just cleans things up a bit. You may find reading up on your anti sump valve a good thing. Best practice ride alot. If you really like to be scarred put in a clear line after that valve of yours.

I have about 25 lbs at 4000 rpm. Do you think I should just run it and forget about it? This is the first motor I have built myself so I have been a little overly cautious. I suppose it must be assembled correctly since the bike runs really well and makes no funny noises.

Thanks

Mark

norbsa48503 · Aug 10, 2006

A shim kit for the oil pressure relif valve is avialable. Sounds like you need to try this. What shims were in there stock? This is easy to check and play with but if after adding some you get no results well it happens to many. Worth a check though. Go for a good toot and when you get back pull the exhast rocker cover fast, you should see lots of oil.

fourperf · Aug 10, 2006

norbsa48503 said:
A shim kit for the oil pressure relif valve is avialable. Sounds like you need to try this. What shims were in there stock? This is easy to check and play with but if after adding some you get no results well it happens to many. Worth a check though. Go for a good toot and when you get back pull the exhast rocker cover fast, you should see lots of oil.

I did add a shim to the relief valve. It had 2 it it and I added one. That made the oil pressure go up a bit but still not 40 lbs at 4000 rps. It did make it go from 60 to 80 lbs when cold at idle.

If there is a lot of oil in the rocker cover right after a ride shoulfd that mean all is ok no matter what the guage says?

Thanks

Mark

Oil pressure at head

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