Nickel plated Commando frame

Is there anyone here with a nickel plated standard Commando frame, if so could you post a picture. I'm thinking of having it done. If so, is there any disadvantages etc
Thanks
sam

I have seen one belonging to Ronnie Guidi , don't have a photo and unfortunately Ronnie died about 3 years ago don't know what happened to his bikes but maybe Kommando could tell you . Ronnie told me that it seemed a good idea at the time but was unsure wheather it was worth it or not.

Jg

It's a great idea Sam. It will transform the looks. Just make sure you've done all the mods and repairs you need first and remember that plate eccentuates, rather than hides, any imperfections in appearance of welds, scratches, dings, etc.

BTW Norman White told me that th factory nickel plated the cradles on their racers so that the frequent removal and replacement of engines didn't scratch everything to bits.

Be aware that nickel plating the frame increases the risk of hydrogen embrittlement. Make sure a hydrogen bake out cycle will be performed after the plating process is completed. I have seen some nasty examples of material failures in aircraft components where the baking process was omitted or incorrectly performed.

Fast Eddie said:

It's a great idea Sam. It will transform the looks. Just make sure you've done all the mods and repairs you need first and remember that plate eccentuates, rather than hides, any imperfections in appearance of welds, scratches, dings, etc.

Click to expand...

Above all make dead sure your frame doesn't have tiny holes or hairline cracks that allow penetrating acid during the process because in time this will definitely ruin your frame from inside out :cry:

1. Research hydrogen embrittlement more before you do anything. HE according to my research primarily effects high alloy steels like chrome moly and is not a problem for mild steel . But don't take my word for it.

2. I have both a Dunstall featherbed that was copper/nickle/chromed as delivered by Dunstall dealership in 68 .
I also have a 73 commando frame that was chromed or nickled by a local club member... looks a horrible mess mess today. Very low resistance to weathering/rust. I will need to be kept out of weather and kept oiled or it will start to look like rusty rims after a few rain storms. If only nickled and not kept oiled, the copper will leach through nickle and result in a growing green tarnish.

3. Having redone my Dunstall I learned about the inability of plating to wrap around corners. A huge amount of effort will be required to put secondary electrodes inside shadowed areas or you will have starved or no plating in some areas.

4. possible to do yes... but I would not do it considering the expense, technical complications, and being a one way trip...Cyanide stripping is even harder to find to undo the mess. anything else eats the steel DAMHIK

5. The only reason I have the 73 commando bike is because the owner got tired of the mess and GAVE me the bike for FREE. I would not have given him anything ($$) for it.

Proprietary flat track frames such as Trackmaster, Redline and C&J used to be nickel-plated to stave off the ill effects of the chemicals used on dirt track surfaces. Nowadays, the chemicals aren't so nasty and paint has gotten a lot more durable (and is cheaper than plating). Nickel without a flash of chrome overlay is not real tough and requires constant maintenance to keep looking good. Every old nickel-plated tracker frame I've seen looks like hell. And chroming can cause the frame to not flex where it was designed to and cracks can propagate.

I'd like to see a Commando frame plasma-sprayed by an outfit like Jet-Hot coatings to see if it's easily maintainable and doesn't lead to other problems like cracking and rust. If it holds up on exhaust pipes, a frame should be cake.

trident sam asks: " If so, is there any disadvantages etc"
One disadvantage comes to mind. A friend had a Rocket Gold Star frame nickel plated a number of years ago. I can't recall the cost, but it was staggeringly expensive. Suggest you look into the cost before you get too committed.

Stephen Hill

I always only use enamel paint on frames. The fuel doesn't affect it and it is easy to touch-up after doing repairs. I recently had a nickel-plated Egli frame which had been stored under a tiled roof. It was a rusty piece of shit. Hydrogen embrittlement should not be a problem with mild steel tube, however a friend had a big problem with it. He built a beautiful replica W196 Mercedes racing car. The front suspension on the original, was a fabrication of oval tube. So he got some hydraulic tube and pressed it oval, made the wish-bones and had them nickel-plated. During the night, the car collapsed onto the floor of the garage after the wish-bones broke.

I've owned several bikes with nickel plated frames, and the only disadvantage I've seen is the need to polish them regularly to keep them from tarnishing. One of the nice features of nickel plating is that if the frame cracks in the future, the cracks will be more visible than with painted finishes.

Ken

I'm pretty sure Jerry Kaplan in Davis, CA has a nickel-plated frame, you might wanna ask him about it? He's into Norton in a big way, often rides a sweet red Commando.
jerrykap@pacbell.net
https://mymotolife.shutterfly.com/

I have a Rickman frame that was nickel plated by the factory in 1975, they plated all of their frames so had the processes nailed.

Replating would have been in excess of £500 (say $750), around 7 or 8 years ago, so I didn't go that way. And there was an attendant risk that the process would not be as benign as the original due to the problems suggested by others here on processes from stripping to embrittlement. Cost is high because the base metal needs polishing too get rid of inperfections, that as Fast Eddie says, will be highlighted by the process. The Rickman is OIF so even more care is needed to keep unwanted fluids out of the 'oil tank' and away from the bronze welds. The Commando frame should be a simpler prospect apart from the higher likelyhood of surface imperfections in the mild steel tube originally intended for painting.

No, imy Rickman is not as pretty as a newly plated frame, but it has a certain 'honesty' about it with repairs and replacement swinging arm just in plain uncoated/painted chromo steel and bronze weld.

Freshly done the Commando frame will look very nice, it will also stay that way if you maintain it well without polishing all of the nickel off, but only trust to a plater that knows the material you are plating and has a track record specifically on motorcycle frames as long as your arm.

The nickel plating I've done had little to do with acids, so I'd be curious where this concern about embrittlement is coming from ? It doesn't use anything like the amperage that say chroming uses either, so its not like the electricity is driving hydrogens into overdrive...

Also, nickel isn't all all directional in its plating - not like chrome that throws only in straight lines - so 'shadowing' in the plating tank should be minimal too. ?? You'd need plenty of nickel electrodes though, a frame uses a LOT of metal to get any thickness of plating.

A relative had a nickel plated Rickman frame, from brand new.
Beautiful, and then some.
Wiped over regularly with light oil, or waxed, it never showed any sign of corrosion or dulling.

And the original Rickman frames age beautifully.
Too much polishing will wear through the nickel, like on all the bull nosed Morris's you see.

Nickel plating is notorious for causing hydrogen embrittlement, it also 'double-coats' easily.

Chrome plating = chromic acid is notorious for hydrogen embrittlement.
And uses enormous amps to force the metal transfer.
Nickel is way milder to apply...

If you flex mucho something that has been nickel plated, the nickel will bend with the item.
If you flex too much something that has been chromed, the chrome will often crack.
And the crack can propagate through the whole item.

Which is not to say that electroplated items shouldn't be heat treated afterwards...

That comment about getting a frame done by someone who knows how is probably a good one.

Nickel plating is initially quick until the anodes become inefficient. Normal direction of metal transfer in plating baths is from anode to cathode. However in a nickel plating baths there is a lot of stuff travelling in the opposite direction. So it is common practice to bag the anodes. Also because the 'throw' is abysmal, the parts are usually kept moving in the bath. This means that the rate of metal deposition at the cathode is slower than with other baths and the amount of hydrogen gassing is relatively higher. Embrittlement is believed to be due to nascent hydrogen. It can also be due to acid pickling, however acid pickling is a common precursor to most plating processes.
If your frame is chrome-moly, I would not nickel plate it.

Rickmans obviously knew what they were doing.
Good they didn't listen to you...

Beautiful frames and beautiful nickel jobs.
Hi-tensile steel and all...

P.S. Nickel doesn't gas much at all.
I've done a fair bit of nickel plating on and off.
This lizard accidently got left on the bottom of the tank,
The thickness of its coat of nickel has to be seen to be believed.
No movement, well plated underneath. !
Not quite the same as the intricacies of plating a frame though.
https://s12.postimg.org/qbox0567x/nickelled.jpg

Thanks for the replies guys, I know a guy with a Harrier frame nickel plated , a beautiful job. Will see what he says and if advises against it I'll probably just stove enamel the frame silver.
sam