New electric start conversion

Lovely shiny bits

I'm sure you have it on your 'long' list of things to do but . . . . . .

Don't forget the MKiii owners :mrgreen:

I've replaced all the original 'bits' with new AN parts (not just the sprag all the various gears etc. etc.)
I've also upgraded the battery, cables and starter motor.

It does start the bike BUT I still get the whizzy sound of doom, I presume, it's the sprag not engaging.

I'm of the opinion that the original system, although it does work, needs 'fettling' to keep it going. I'm also convienced that the parts wear VERY quickly and you then end up with lots of other issues, especially with the sprag.

So, Matt, you're our only hope :lol:

Matt , hoping too that the harder material sprag engagement parts receive some development for us MK111 owners. Thanks way in advance.

Matt ,+1 for me too on the Mk111 starter motor parts. I have just stripped mine down and found the sprag has fallen apart .Plus the the other 2 gears have some denting on them as previously mentioned,I would buy a set of parts now if you had them for sale.
But may have to buy the AN parts for now to get the bike back on the road.
Brett

This fix for Mk3 sprags was posted on the NOC forum recently.

[i}That sorts the starter motor out, now for the sprag This is slightly different to the Ken Merrick mod outlined on this website ages ago This mod increases the angle of the sprags so it has no chance of 'flipping' and consequently wrecking the sprag/drive gear/sprocket Obtain a LRT354220 hardened bearing inner race from your local bearing stockist (should cost only a few pounds, I got two for less than a tenner) Turn/grind the drive gear spigot (what engages with the sprag) down to 1.450" diameter. make sure you have a good radius tween the spigot and gear i.e. NO UNDER CUT You can do this with the needle roller still in place, just plug the bore turn/grind the bore of the your new inner race so it has an interference fit of 0.002" (1.448") chamfer the bore so it will sit over the radius Press the two together ,remount in the lathe and turn to length. Turn/grind the OD down to 1.632" (this is an increase of 0.007" over standard) radius the end so it is an easy fit in the sprag. Job Done Ken Merrick did his mod a little differently, he glued the sleeve to the drive gear with loctite retainer. He also internally ground out the engine sprocket to remove the sprag dig in marks (approx 0.010") and increased the size of the sleeve accordingly. I have found that it is not necessary to do this. Even if you have to pay someone to do the machining for you it should work out cheaper than replacing crunched bits for new ones. The drive gear and bearing sleeve can be turned with sharp carbide tools but I used a toolpost grinder to finish the diameters (Same toolpost grinder i used to reface the cam followers when it replaced my camshaft) My last commando (thirty years ago) crunched its sprag in Stockholm (Sweden) when I was going to the Britti Ralli in Finland. This was years before I got myself a well equipped machine/workshop. Belt drives run dry and this starter system do not mix well. The sprag requires lubrication or it will prematurely fail, If it fails and seizes the sprocket to the drive gear you will kiss your motor goodbye as the starter motor will not be able to withstand the huge increase in revs (60,000 plus) If you do have to run a belt drive make sure it can run in an oil bath (with oil!) [/i]

Don't have a MK3 to try it on.

I have had this mod done by Peter (dobba99) last March on my Mk3 and it is working flawlessly although I've probably only done about 1500 miles on it up till now so possibly 60 to 100 start-ups?
Thanks Peter.

Hey,

It is definitely our intention to move forward with our MkIII improvement kit as well. This being the front sprocket and drive gear in a different material/hardness

Exactly when this will be available is hard to say right now as there are several things ahead on the development list

- Finish up the e-start conversion
- Stand alone belt drive kit including making our own clutch center
- Electronically controlled wetsump valve
- Rocker arm rebuild / exchange service
- MkIII sprocket / gear set
- Front and rear disc hubs (billet)

On all of the above I am working with STS in Jacksonville. Johns machine shop capability and his willingness to do short runs is a perfect fit for cNw and I am definitely taking advantage of it

There may be some questions about the above parts and I will start some separate threads as these items go into production and become available (sleep ??....who needs it !)

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

cNw said:

Hey,

It is definitely our intention to move forward with our MkIII improvement kit as well. This being the front sprocket and drive gear in a different material/hardness

Click to expand...

Matt, that's good to know! My MKIII with Dave's starter, cables and an Odyssey PC545 will spin the the engine over quite well, even with a sump full of 50 wt. I just try and NOT do that on a regular basis, since I can still kick it over easily. I only use the starter for a quick hot start, or a rare stall at a light. Kind of like trying to save the sprag and make it live as long as possible.

Brithit said:

cNw said:

Hey,

It is definitely our intention to move forward with our MkIII improvement kit as well. This being the front sprocket and drive gear in a different material/hardness

Click to expand...

Matt, that's good to know! My MKIII with Dave's starter, cables and an Odyssey PC545 will spin the the engine over quite well, even with a sump full of 50 wt. I just try and NOT do that on a regular basis, since I can still kick it over easily. I only use the starter for a quick hot start, or a rare stall at a light. Kind of like trying to save the sprag and make it live as long as possible.

Click to expand...

Not sure I quite understand the logic of owning a Mark 3 with all the upgraded electric start goodies and
Then kick starting it. Spare your joints the future pain unless you think you are superman. It's only money.
If kick starting is your gig then get a Mark 2 and enjoy a much more thrilling bike.

lazyeye6 said:

Brithit said:

cNw said:

Hey,

It is definitely our intention to move forward with our MkIII improvement kit as well. This being the front sprocket and drive gear in a different material/hardness

Click to expand...

Matt, that's good to know! My MKIII with Dave's starter, cables and an Odyssey PC545 will spin the the engine over quite well, even with a sump full of 50 wt. I just try and NOT do that on a regular basis, since I can still kick it over easily. I only use the starter for a quick hot start, or a rare stall at a light. Kind of like trying to save the sprag and make it live as long as possible.

Click to expand...

Not sure I quite understand the logic of owning a Mark 3 with all the upgraded electric start goodies and
Then kick starting it. Spare your joints the future pain unless you think you are superman. It's only money.
If kick starting is your gig then get a Mark 2 and enjoy a much more thrilling bike.

Click to expand...

It's to spare the sprag.

swooshdave said:

lazyeye6 said:

I

Not sure I quite understand the logic of owning a Mark 3 with all the upgraded electric start goodies and
Then kick starting it. Spare your joints the future pain unless you think you are superman. It's only money.
If kick starting is your gig then get a Mark 2 and enjoy a much more thrilling bike.

Click to expand...

It's to spare the sprag.

Click to expand...

Dave is right on the money. Since you questioned my "logic", I like the MKIII and a lot of its good features. As long as I own one, it's going to have the e-start on it and working. My knees are in fine shape, but if they go bad, it won't be from kickstarting. It will be from 62 years of wear and tear. A good friend of mine has a very nice P11, and since he's had both of his knees replaced, his doctor has put the kibosh on him even trying to kick it once, and when he went against that and tried, the pain was pretty intense. He's looking at other options - even starting rollers so he can ride in now and then. As far as the sprag life, yes I don't use it cold very often. My sprag seems to be good and every time I push the button, I feel that's one less time it will work. Maybe, maybe not, but this group has been full of posts of people replacing both just sprags, and others replacing all of the e-start components they say you need to replace along with the sprags, and the results have been mixed. Some have had great luck, others expensive frustration. I read every post, thinking I might be next. These mods that two members posted in this thread look interesting. If CNW offered a kit, I probably would buy it. And speaking of CNW, I'm in the queue to buy one of their new e-start kits for my 72 Dunstall. It has clip on, rear sets, and a reversed gear lever that make kicking it a real adventure for me, and I'll use that e-start every time. I'm not sure how a MKII is a "much more thrilling bike", because most of the things that made the MKIII slower back in the road tests of the day have been changed, etc. Sure, it weighs a liitle more, but I've come to appreciate a lot of the little things that were unique to this model. I used to turn up my nose at the left hand shifting, but it still is a Norton, and still very cool.

Hey Guys,

Time for an update

We are really close to shipping the e-start kits. We have a batch of CNC alloy parts in the shop already and I have worked with different finishes making sure we have some nice options. There will be a Satin (actually a tumble finish), Show polish and also a Black anodize. The Black will be a later availability (June) and a premium finish as it's actually 2 different ones combined. First we do the Satin finish and then it gets anodized. Of course, the black would also require a black outer cover that we can provide or you can finish your own. The Satin finish looks great and is a good choice for those that want more of a business look. The Show polish is stunning as the quality of the CNC work really stands out

The initial batch we are producing will be 50 kits.

Spoke to John at STS earlier today and the e-start internals (belt drives, gears etc) are being palletized this week. It will be shipped freight to Colorado and we expect it here before the end of the April

Got a pallet of shipping supplies dedicated for the e-start kits today as well.

In other words, we are finishing up on all the details and getting close.

Also, Thanks to everyone on our pre order list for being patient as we are wrapping this up





More info and details about the kit here

http://coloradonortonworks.com/part-cat ... #post-1214

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

That satin finish will be deadly... to many a wallet.

Just been trying to work out the import duty payable on one of your kits into the UK. Looks like I'll pay VAT, (20%) plus import duty plus (can you believe it) VAT on the duty. Is the price quoted on the website including any USA tax? It makes one think of taking up smuggling.

What was determined with the air filter situation, the standard air box cant be used, what about the stock air box shortened with the narrow filter? or is the kit restricted to smaller cone type filters?

gripper said:

Just been trying to work out the import duty payable on one of your kits into the UK. Looks like I'll pay VAT, (20%) plus import duty plus (can you believe it) VAT on the duty. Is the price quoted on the website including any USA tax? It makes one think of taking up smuggling.

Click to expand...

No additional taxes (US) charged when shipping out of the state of Colorado

Contact me directly at the shop for additional information in regards to shipping, import duties etc

nortonworks@fone.net

Thanks

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

madass140 said:

What was determined with the air filter situation, the standard air box cant be used, what about the stock air box shortened with the narrow filter? or is the kit restricted to smaller cone type filters?

Click to expand...

Mad,

When running stock Amals, the rear section of the airfilter box that is bolted to the battery tray (and that also has a key bracket on some machines) can be retained.

I will be offering a K&N airfilter that will fit in place of the stock type

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com

Remind me how many years is it that QPD in the USA has been manufacturing electric start systems for Commandos Triumphs etc.........A starter drives a bull ring on the back of the belt driven diaphragm spring clutch and the belt turns the motor over..... nothing wrong with a Bendix mechanism......been around for decades and even a Norton owner should be capable of repairing one......and if not should they actually own an old British bike?

J. M. Leadbeater said:

Remind me how many years is it that QPD in the USA has been manufacturing electric start systems for Commandos Triumphs etc.........A starter drives a bull ring on the back of the belt driven diaphragm spring clutch and the belt turns the motor over..... nothing wrong with a Bendix mechanism......been around for decades and even a Norton owner should be capable of repairing one......and if not should they actually own an old British bike?

Click to expand...

You are right. QPD developed an electric start conversion. It was also the system that Kenny Dreer used for his Vintage rebuilds and ultimately the VR's. This is the same system that consistently failed on the majority of the machines and was rendered inoperable.

This thread is to inform people about the cNw electric start conversion. If you have any questions, concerns or comments about this particular kit, I will be happy to respond to those.

If you are on here to promote another companies system, then that's not cool. Start another thread about the QPD system and be sure to include their website, contact info, pricing and availability so people will know where and how to buy it

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

good luck with contacting bob or buying one from him now days.

cNw said:

Start another thread about the QPD system and be sure to include their website, contact info, pricing and availability so people will know where and how to buy it

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

Click to expand...

I think we all get the gist of what cNw was saying