Modern Oils

Status
Not open for further replies.
Its didn't matter what oil i put in this model Benz as its rust cancer became fatal but not before Houston had to repave 100 yds on each side of my driveway. Would chew oil and tires up by first shoving back deep in hard German seats then up their seat angle... ah so FI big block V8 Alu OHC heads so power curve like famous era American V8's. Before cell ph era so radio telephone connected not hip leashed to a pager. A real job perks.
Modern Oils

To fit in frame, had dry-sump oil system that circulated a whopping 17 quarts of oil between the engine and storage tank, which was utilized to extend the engine life. Like my P!! >>> king of the Road in Houston Texas so fast and impressive have Police flash me over and let go just telling I was testing its 0-100-0 or pointed to a pizza box saying wife waiting. Most sleek exotic Euro sports cars got sneers wiped too. Crazy making life events I want more of, who wouldn't... I put in what ever oil had flashiest ads in car magazines, in heavy race grade, what young man wouldn't?

http://www.mbca.org/forum/mercedes-69l-engine
http://bringatrailer.com/2014/04/08/cle ... 50sel-6-9/
 
worntorn said:
Actually, no confusion there, the Zddp info is essentially the same as in the link I posted, that is some Zddp is good but adding more beyond a certain level is actually harmful.

Re the VW tdi.
VW must have kept the good TDIs in Germany. Over here they are not known for longevity or reliability. In fact they have made it to the bottom or near bottom of the JD Power survey more than once. Cracked heads were main big complaint( two new heads in 160,000 miles on my brother's TDI,) but lots of other complaints. Out of seven new TDI Jetta's purchased by my wife's coworker's in 2003 2004, five had serious problems within two years. Maybe the too often oil changes wreck the motor? :D

Glen
Click to expand...


I have FIVE TDI's in my driveway, 550,000 miles, 290,000, 240,000, 320,000, 210,000. No failures besides a worn out turbo VNT rack at 410,000, MAF sensors. The ONLY time the heads crack is when the timing belt change interval is ignored, and the valves are mashed by the pistons.

The JDPower BS is a poll of people who like doing NOTHING (including preventive maintenance) to their vehicles. German cars NOT for them.

Modern Oils


Modern Oils
 
Diesel oil seems hard to top so wonder if comnoz or someone could rig a Norton as a diesel?
 
I always loved oil threads. I worked for a oil company that made most of the branded motorcycle products that were sold through dealers through the 70's and 80's. Harley Davidson oil was one of the few we didn't make. No, they wer'nt all the same, they all had a different recipes.

We turned down some as some wanted us to make products that were just not very good. We had a competitor down the street that would make any crap you wanted and we would send them there.

The level of Zinc or the lack thereof in motor oil now is a valid concern in flat tappet engines. It's true too much Zinc can lead to wear and deposits long term. The quality of the Zinc additive can be in question as well, they are not all the same.

It is generally accepted that 1200 ppm of Zinc will keep flat tappet cams happy.

Even diesel engine oils have had the Zinc levels reduced, they use friction modifiers just like automotive oils. Many diesel engines have roller cam followers now and high Zinc levels are no longer needed.

The NASCAR guys have used special racing oils with very high Zinc levels of 1800 to 2000 ppm because of the extreme loads on cams and followers. But it looks like they may get to use roller cam followers in the future so Zinc levels can be reduced in the products they use as well.


Just my 2 cents worth and that's about all free information is worth.

I hope we all have safe new year riding our Nortons.

Ken.
 
motoracer8 said:
I always loved oil threads. I worked for a oil company that made most of the branded motorcycle products that were sold through dealers through the 70's and 80's. Harley Davidson oil was one of the few we didn't make. No, they wer'nt all the same, they all had a different recipes.

We turned down some as some wanted us to make products that were just not very good. We had a competitor down the street that would make any crap you wanted and we would send them there.

The level of Zinc or the lack thereof in motor oil now is a valid concern in flat tappet engines. It's true too much Zinc can lead to wear and deposits long term. The quality of the Zinc additive can be in question as well, they are not all the same.

It is generally accepted that 1200 ppm of Zinc will keep flat tappet cams happy.

Even diesel engine oils have had the Zinc levels reduced, they use friction modifiers just like automotive oils. Many diesel engines have roller cam followers now and high Zinc levels are no longer needed.

The NASCAR guys have used special racing oils with very high Zinc levels of 1800 to 2000 ppm because of the extreme loads on cams and followers. But it looks like they may get to use roller cam followers in the future so Zinc levels can be reduced in the products they use as well.


Just my 2 cents worth and that's about all free information is worth.

I hope we all have safe new year riding our Nortons.

Ken.
Click to expand...

Modern Oils


And the PD TDI's have extremely narrow cam lobes, creating an oil torture test. Again, the folks who refuse to spend $10 on a quart of (proper) oil are crying when the failures occur.
Modern Oils
 
What kind of engine is that Jim? Iarge diameter cam like most modern OHC engines.

Maybe I should have specified push rod engines.

Ken
 
motoracer8 said:
What kind of engine is that Jim? Iarge diameter cam like most modern OHC engines.

Maybe I should have specified push rod engines.

Ken
Click to expand...

2004 forward VW TDI.
 
Alrighty Ludwig you are always getting ahead of us - while it lasts. Trasher I thought I was being pure silly on a Diesel Norton but shown otherwise, cool. Been scaning for oil and cycle stuff to keep seeing happy Rotella users, like me but didn't have oil pressure gauge on Trixie so don't know what PSI she was missing out on but didn't see fuzz on mag sump plug nor anything but better polished burnish on cam/lifters. Rottela was about only I used in Trixie feeling a bit pensive till rings and leaks make me open up this summer.
 
Wanted to employ some Perfect Circle rings in my next build, but from the counsel received here in combination with the Perfect Circle claim below, am certain that the oil would not be in the engine long enough to actually get slippery, and one would certainly not want to keep running such fresh oil now that we know how much better well used oil is. Worse yet, if consuming oil at the claimed rate of ~ 1000 mi/gal, someone could accuse you of conducting proxy oil changes just by maintaining a full oil reservoir.

Modern Oils
 
WZ507 said:
]http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd439/wz507/Norton/DSCN0120.jpg
Click to expand...

Ha !!
A pint of oil every 125 miles, how wonderful....

We'd have to note the old look of that advertising tin sign though.
And we all should recall that in the early days of engine history, PISTONS DIDN'T HAVE OIL RINGS AT ALL.
The lube system consisted of a dribble of oil, fed in on the old drip feed system.
And then blown out onto the road once it had done its work.
So I'd say that sign was circa 1920s, when recirculating oiling systems were just coming into vogue.

If you watch old footage of old cars and bikes back then, they often emit large clouds of smoke now and then,
as the old oil accumulates a bit until a 'high speed'* burst clears it out.
*Such terms being relative, 20 or 30 mph being enough...

Well spotted though, bit of history there.

Incidentally, Manx Nortons didn't always have an oil ring, certainly the later ones didn't - and nor do many full-on racing engines, even to this day.
Having merely a compression ring, or 2, and having oil blown past that ring to keep the piston(s) well lubed.
Formula One engines simply have enough oil in the sump/tank at the start to ensure there is enough to get to the end of the race.
Like manx nortons, this may require that more oil is added at any pits stops.

Perfect Circle were an Aussie brand ?

Also, road tests of new bikes in The Motorcycle etc (motorcycle magazines) used to include a figure for oil use.
Without looking any up, Vincents claimed something like 2000 mpg,
which I think was state of the art back then, many used more.
And that was early 1950s....
 
Check out Total seal piston rings some time. I've used them in verious rebuilds over the years.
Older Porsche's always seemed to burn alittle too much oil. Total seal rings helped curb their appetite for oil.

Ken
 
How efficient an engines oil use is is quite closely related to the ring design and operation.
Nortons have those new fangled 3 part oil rings with expander function.
Later ones anyway....
Folks just expect this these days, and take it for granted, but it was hard learned over tha past century or more.
A prize to that man for spotting this, and pointing it out here.

"Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it"

For bonus brownie points, does anyone know what current production engines are using for oil rings,
that oil use is for all intents and purposes about zero.
Some of these modern oils are thinner than water (0W/0 engine oil !!).....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top