Modern Oils

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needing said:
Please don't be afraid of a suggestion of proof to support a pov!
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Gerry Bristow RIP did 80,000+ miles on his well travelled Commando using Mobil 1 synthetic.
What else is there to discuss, other than that particular oil is no longer available....
 
needing said:
I call "Use 'em up. Wear 'em out. Rebuild them. Repeat" as more money than good sense.
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I don't have money to spend on things that I'm not using. And my Commando gives me more pleasure than just about anything else I spend money on. Even if I do have to spend $30 or $40 every few years to put new sleeve gear bushings in the gearbox. I think the last time I looked in the motor I put mushroom headed rocker ends in. Before that I did lap the valves and replace the springs when I replaced the pistons. Otherwise the bottom end has close to 50,000 miles on it and rings last around 30,000. Doesn't seem like the oil is doing too bad a job in an archaic design of a high output (for its day) air cooled motor.

I'm not sure what more oil testing would tell me. I would be kind of interested to see the results you get from your bike, but, eh... These bikes are not disposable, they are rebuildable. Ride 'em.


I'll bet the original poster is wondering 'What the hell did I get myself into?' or is an agent provocateur.

Greg
 
needing said:
Hi Jim.
Refer: "The term "Synthetic" oil any more only means that the oil has a controlled and uniform molecule size -whether it is synthesized from gas or made from a good grade of base stock is not considered -and i really doubt that it makes much difference. Jim"

I am/was hoping to get some objective data on the analysis of everyone's favourite oil in Norton Commandos to have a more real-to-life comparison. Seem the subjective guessing is the preferred option to date. Oh well... I guess.
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I always liked doing oil analysis. The last test I sent was from Kenny's racebike last summer. He had been using an oil that I didn't have any experience with. It had only been used for one weekend of racing.

It came back showing good additive levels but extremely high levels of iron and aluminum. That pretty much went along with the condition of the bores and pistons. If also showed fuel contamination but I guess the fuel got left on after the races.

The company I used didn't give an oxidation percentage but the viscosity had decreased so that would generally indicate that there was not high oxidation [or a lot of fuel in the oil]. Oxidation increases the viscosity. Jim
 
Fast Eddie said:
But to answer your question, my own preferred oil is made from top quality base, it has the highest zinc content (or one of the highest), maintains its viscosity longer than most, and is available in a good choice of sae grades.

The company is Redline.
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Nigel, what is the Zinc (zddp) content of the Red line oil you are using?


Glen
 
Some interesting test data and discussion here. Note that while some Zinc is good, very high levels tend to increase long term wear.
Also, note the high wear rating of the Valvoline VR1 conventional which is an inexpensive oil. Inexpensive means you can afford to change it often and of course show the dirty oil to your Mammy! :mrgreen:
Red line also tested well.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836
 
Maybe most are missing some real life chemistry issues on zinc + phosphorus levels and the equilibrium to form ZDDP nano pads layer vs dissolving it back off before shut down as well as decaying the friction surfaces we care for so much. I've spend some confusing reading on this to cause me to be less concerned with the ZDDP vs the quality of the base oil and other additives. Its not hobot hocum to reflexly recoil at or reconsider how much to cool your oil.

For high spring pressure flat tappet cam engines, ZDDP sure appears to do well at the lowest price point. But this isnt relevant to modern engines. New and alternate adds work perfectly well, and so Id not be concerned with ZDDP at all at current levels.
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=3155862

Study this for re-evaluating confidence in ZDDP levels that always tops off the oil thread worries.
And keep in mind for comparison with the oils below, that earlier oil industry testing has found that above 1,400 ppm, ZDDP INCREASED long term wear, even though break-in wear was reduced. And it was also found that ZDDP above 2,000 ppm, started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling. So, no matter what zinc fans might “believe”, there is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".
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http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836
 
worntorn said:
Some interesting test data and discussion here. Note that while some Zinc is good, very high levels tend to increase long term wear.
Also, note the high wear rating of the Valvoline VR1 conventional which is an inexpensive oil. Inexpensive means you can afford to change it often and of course show the dirty oil to your Mammy! :mrgreen:

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836
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All good stuff. I like lorax's reply.

One thing they didn't test and something that is a concern in a Norton is the flash point of the oil. Jim
 
Ugh all the more reason to only cool oil entering head to me. I'm still confused with all the factors to balance but so far Redline seems to float to the top in most reports so maybe most cost effective in long term. What is never mentioned on oil threads in forums yet found in more technical references is the way engine is operated to determine which oil to run. Could have some bearing on comnoz blow by frustrations? They all decay if just sitting and when running except for Ashley's Commando.
 
Actually, no confusion there, the Zddp info is essentially the same as in the link I posted, that is some Zddp is good but adding more beyond a certain level is actually harmful.

Re the VW tdi.
VW must have kept the good TDIs in Germany. Over here they are not known for longevity or reliability. In fact they have made it to the bottom or near bottom of the JD Power survey more than once. Cracked heads were main big complaint( two new heads in 160,000 miles on my brother's TDI,) but lots of other complaints. Out of seven new TDI Jetta's purchased by my wife's coworker's in 2003 2004, five had serious problems within two years. Maybe the too often oil changes wreck the motor? :D

Glen
 
worntorn said:
and not just VW.
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How true that is.
Although that article does not actually cover many cars really. Or detail what the problems are.

Every time I go to the local cylinder head shoppee, tales of woe are spread out on his counter, and something new to learn.
Some makes are quite prone to cylinder head cracking.
And a fancy looking 4 valve dohc head had 11 bent valves (of 16) when the cam belt snapped.
(Some engines aren't affected by this, which I would call mandatory design.?).

Oh, and the local reliability survey, across millions of vehicles, found that something like 95% of unreliability issues were battery related.
Perhaps they should fit kickstarters to all cars ??

Back to oils...
 
I'll buy a TDI when they build them like my 82' 300SD.
Modern Oils
 
needing said:
Hi Mark.
A whole lot more riding happening here than the rebuilding you guys seem to programme in as routine.
Enjoy your shed time.
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It took me a while to understand that others have riding "seasons" in the Northern Hemisphere... Seems they get snowed in or too cold for several months a year... So not surprising that "routine major maintanence" is carried out yearly... Here in West Australia it might get too hot a few days here and there or a bit wet, but never for months.
 
Snorton74 said:
I'll buy a TDI when they build them like my 82' 300SD.
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Mechanical injection - before the age of electronics ?
Mercs downfall in some later years...

Someone local-ish publically burnt his Jeep, after it had been back (mostly towed) to the Dealer something like 13 times.
Said they had driven it more than he had....

Back to oils....
 
What grade of redline - guffaw.

Watercooled engines can usually run a thinner oil, to give better fuel consumption mostly.
 
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