Modern Oils

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Triton Thrasher said:
There was a diesel converted 500 ohv single, at one time.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh23 ... 96dd6b.jpg
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There have been a number of diesel Nortons, and bikes, over the eons.
Thats later than the commonly shown pic of an earlier Norton converted to diesel.
Getting the compression up to ~16:1 is a bit tricky, using the stock head is usually not included.
But we diverge, slightly - which is where much of the useful info on this forum comes from...
 
How awesome would it be to be able to kickstart a Norton with 16 : 1 c/r. And then say "We don't need no steenking compression reeleese".
 
Note the big heavy flywheel on the pic above there somewhere.
There for a reason.
Like the starting proceedure for all big singles, you get the flywheel spinning BEFORE it gets to compression.

I can recall hand crank starting an old Perkins 6 diesel, if the battery was cold.
Do-able, but you had to get your hands out of the way quick smart when she fired.
 
Piston King Oil rules the road in real life conditons you can bet your bottoms on.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heimahDPf_s[/video]
 
Blew up a few jet boat big blocks blowing off too many hot shot jet skis after letting them creep up over 45mph with gals on forward deck wavying bye bye. Charged ocean swells like MX cycles and charged into leap over dams in flood waters like asalmon then into flooded pastures freaking out live stock then spin around and to catch air leapping over dam back down to river level while popping stuff in the water lkle 'Nam doormen - if we'd only had this oil proven in these harsh conditions.. .

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E04hSc98g8A[/video]
 
Rohan said:
How efficient an engines oil use is is quite closely related to the ring design and operation.
Nortons have those new fangled 3 part oil rings with expander function.
Later ones anyway....

For bonus brownie points, does anyone know what current production engines are using for oil rings,
that oil use is for all intents and purposes about zero.
Some of these modern oils are thinner than water (0W/0 engine oil !!).....
Click to expand...
My 2004 Dodge Durango came apart at 120,000 miles, and it had/has the 3-piece oil rings. Very thin, as in probably less than .050", plus scary-low tension against the bores. After the rebuild, the 5w30 oil consumption between oil changes (5000 miles) is so low as to question if it uses any at all. Pretty impressive!

Nathan
 
Interesting charts to use- depending on where you believe our oil temp should be taken in picking the indicated grade to run. 2nd chart shows C series non catalytic use oils so a no brainer for flat tappet engine like good ole diesel grade again. Best engine wear habit is to limit runing time below cam surfing rpm though lower gear bushes then take on the wear but easier to deal with. Best wear oil is the thickest you can start up on and pump an cstill move decently when cold and not blow a seal- in the engine sense of the term. All other decisions on oil is just to get away better by more wearing operation habits that Commando do so invite us all to savor its Harlyness. Long as old HD's around you can always no brainer oil from them sometime even with bikini gals serving ya. Which is sure sign it ain't a Brit Iron oriented place.
 
Yep Harley's avoid some our vertical twin oil seal issues but thickest oil you can run with minimal idle rpm intervals still applies to Norton clunkers for least wear except maybe straining oil pump drive.
 
My one comment on oil in my Commando is that when I switched from Valvoline VR1 20w50 to Mobile 1 V-Twin oil is that my oil consumption was cut by about 40 percent.
 
There are Zinc additives you can buy at speed shops. They're made for engine break in with flat tappets.

Some automotive cam grinders supply it with new cams. Most of the damage to a new camshaft is done in the first 20 minutes of operation.

Yes, slow speed is bad, run it up for awhile. And make sure you don't have valve spring coil bind. At full lift make sure you have another .020/.030 of valve movement. Coil bind is a great way to wreck a new camshaft.

Ken
 
WZ507 said:
Wanted to employ some Perfect Circle rings in my next build, but from the counsel received here in combination with the Perfect Circle claim below, am certain that the oil would not be in the engine long enough to actually get slippery, and one would certainly not want to keep running such fresh oil now that we know how much better well used oil is. Worse yet, if consuming oil at the claimed rate of ~ 1000 mi/gal, someone could accuse you of conducting proxy oil changes just by maintaining a full oil reservoir.

Modern Oils
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My favorite part of that picture are the Velo engine cases!
 
Mobil1 W-twin oil is good stuff, but at $12 a bottle it's too expensive to change regularly.
I believe more engine damage is done by starting a wetsumped bike - when the tank pickup is uncovered - than by not using the absolute best oil money can buy.

So I have got into the routine of draining and refilling when the tank pickup is uncovered. When the oil looks black or smells badly fuel-contaminated, I don't pour it back in.

Mobil1 V-twin is only available in 1qt bottles and is too expensive for this, and I am looking for cheaper high-zinc alternatives.
 
kerinorton said:
Diesel has the highest "detergent" of all and good for cleaning diesels. It is not recommended fore petrol engines, and a diesel mechanic once told me he used diesel oil in his triumph for years [ because he had it ]. He used to wonder why it used oil though and didn't really think anything of it [ its an old triumph what the hell ] . One day he was discussing this with his oil rep, and the rep told him the bike was using oil because he was using diesel. He gave the mechanic friend a 5 l of "engine oil" and said you don't have to pay for this if it doesn't work. He ended up paying for it and buying a 20l pail of it.
So it just goes to show you, even mechanics can suffer from lack of information.
All the best for the new year. Dereck

ps the point I made earlier is that there was no excuse to use shit oils when Commandoes were new. The good oil wasn't expensive either, otherwise the service garages would not have bought it.
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I know many people who use diesel-type oil such as Rotella T6 synthetic (albeit in more modern engines than our Nortons) with absolutely no ill effect. I've also heard people postulate that any synthetic oil will promote leakage as opposed to conventional petroleum oils, but I've never seen evidence to prove it.

The main difference between modern oils and older vesions is in the additive packages, which are much more advanced than in the past.

And the main difference beween synthetic and petroleum oil is the synthetic is not broken down so quickly by heat cycles since it has less volatile content.

Everything else you hear to the contrary is bs.
 
WET sump empty oil tank starts worry make no sense to me as wet sump means the big ends are pretty full of oil to sling out through shells w/o pump pressure and splash covers the cam lobes and a few seconds of running returns enough oil to tank to to feed pump completely. Those with Combat breather or comonz type reed valve and plumbing push significant oil back to tank just moving kicker a couple times slowly before actual kick off speed. Trixie factory Combat has had nothing but Rotella 15/40 diesel oil and immediate rev up to cam surfing on full wet sump and test run 100 miles of WOT into redline till oil leaks tear down last year to see nil visible-feelable fuzz on sump magnet and only better polished smoother burnishing of valve stems and cam/lifter surfaces so I no long follow herd mentality on wet sump issue. Oil did not leak on Trixies full wet sump starts though did smoke 30 sec *after* full wet sump cleared and oil pressure hit head then cleared up fine > so Only leaked oil if giving WOT to accelerate or accelerated over 70 mph but oil clean if I operated like an old lady. Now all apart just to reseal but no worries with oil pump loose clearances. What caused Trixies leaking everywhere was the length of time I ran her prior with carb boots cracked sucking in The Gravel dust > Not Wet Sump as Trixie carnk seal is up to the slight extra oil splashing when full. If operated above 200 rpm it don't hardly matter what oil used could even be water expect for the boiling temps and rust. All the special additives only come into play on racer uncovering oil pick up on corner Gs and start ups and idling or lugging use. Synthetic and heavy grade oils resist loss of viscosity so help keep parts separated better at slow rpms longer.
 
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