Mobil One

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Thanks Norflog. Like Is aid earlier, I'm used to just doing oil changes on my own cars and have never done it on a motorcycle. I figured I might be missing the obvious so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask just in case. Afterall, this Norton is my first bike so I guess I'm a late bloomer!
 
A Norton for your first bike! Congradulations,and welcome to the Darkside!
In choosing a Commando for your first motorcycle,you have done two quite profound things.

First,you have chosen the most beautiful motorcycle ever built. Not even another Norton comes close(only the Vincent guys can argue with this). Your bike will attract attention wherever you go,so be prepared. It will always stand out in a crowd of other,lesser motorcycles. It will give you all the performance you will ever realistically want,or need. Additionally,there are endless modifications,and accessories available,should you want to improve the performance,and handling.(*)


Second, learning to perform the maintainance,and repairs necessary to keep your Commando on the road will put you in good stead to maintain any future bikes,or other machines you own. You will pretty much have to learn to be your own mechanic. Finding someone knowledgeable,and trustworthy to work on these beasts was hard enough when they were new. Finding anyone local is nearly impossible now. Nobody is going to expect you to be able to rebuild the engine,but you will need to learn basic carb,and ignition tuning, and some of the easier repairs,like clutch,and primary chain replacement. This forum is a very good resource for information on how to do these things,and if you don't already have one,get a manual. Don't worry,it may sound crazy now,but wrenching on your classic is half the fun!:lol:

(* About those performance modifications. I recommend you stick with handling,and braking improvements, if any,rather than engine mods. Remember,that engine was originally designed as a mildly tuned 500. Over the years it was bored out, cammed out, and otherwise hopped up. The Commando as it came from the factory is already a hotrod,and is really kind of on the ragged edge between power, and reliability.Very many further modifications push it over that edge, so be prudent.)

:D
Cheers
Bruce
 
CommandoRoadster said:
A Norton for your first bike! Congradulations,and welcome to the Darkside!
In choosing a Commando for your first motorcycle,you have done two quite profound things.

First,you have chosen the most beautiful motorcycle ever built. Not even another Norton comes close(only the Vincent guys can argue with this). Your bike will attract attention wherever you go,so be prepared. It will always stand out in a crowd of other,lesser motorcycles. It will give you all the performance you will ever realistically want,or need. Additionally,there are endless modifications,and accessories available,should you want to improve the performance,and handling.(*)


Second, learning to perform the maintainance,and repairs necessary to keep your Commando on the road will put you in good stead to maintain any future bikes,or other machines you own. You will pretty much have to learn to be your own mechanic. Finding someone knowledgeable,and trustworthy to work on these beasts was hard enough when they were new. Finding anyone local is nearly impossible now. Nobody is going to expect you to be able to rebuild the engine,but you will need to learn basic carb,and ignition tuning, and some of the easier repairs,like clutch,and primary chain replacement. This forum is a very good resource for information on how to do these things,and if you don't already have one,get a manual. Don't worry,it may sound crazy now,but wrenching on your classic is half the fun!:lol:

(* About those performance modifications. I recommend you stick with handling,and braking improvements, if any,rather than engine mods. Remember,that engine was originally designed as a mildly tuned 500. Over the years it was bored out, cammed out, and otherwise hopped up. The Commando as it came from the factory is already a hotrod,and is really kind of on the ragged edge between power, and reliability.Very many further modifications push it over that edge, so be prudent.)

:D
Cheers
Bruce
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Thanks Bruce. I figured I was mildly living on the edge buy buying my MKIII for my first bike. I like to keep life interesting.

I am in the process of upgrading the electrics to Sparx ignition, alternator and single coil conversion, new battery cables ect.....

Braking upgrades will be a complete Brembo system up front and a rebuilt rear with stainless rotor and all stainless brake hose.

New SS rocker feed lines and a Dave Taylor headsteady is about to go on as well.

A fork rebuild with all new aluminum internals is about to happen and I have new rear shocks as well.

A new set of alloy wheels is about to go down with an 18" on the rear and a new solo type seat from Evan Wilcox will happen too.

That should be it for this year and next winter I'll get the engine and gearbox rebuilt by CNW while the frame is out for a powdercoat and redo the entire wiring system. It should be fun. :D

I did infact buy myself a parts book and a manual as well as a motorcycle jack from Sears, so I'm ready!

First order of biz is the fork rebuild and change all the fluids and a clean up as I think my oil tank is leaking slightly somewhere. Either that or I need new oil hoses.

I already have the single Mikiuni conversion but I belive it needs adjustment as the bike is running a bit rough right now. Unfortunately I might as well be working on the Space Shuttle as I have no clue about carburators. I am going to buy a Mikuni tuning manual but I still think I;ll have trouble.
 
For a MK3 no ATF in the primary. 20-50 is OK The auto chain tensioner piston don't like ATF. Running a little rough could just need new plugs so don't go nuts yet.
 
norbsa48503 said:
For a MK3 no ATF in the primary. 20-50 is OK The auto chain tensioner piston don't like ATF. Running a little rough could just need new plugs so don't go nuts yet.
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Norbsa, are you talking just plain old 20-50 motor oil for the primary? If so I'll have some left over from the oil change so I can simply put that in. Thanks.

I actually planned on getting a whole new ignition system before I even fired the beast up, but I hear what you are saying. It is easy to go completely crazy with upgrades for this thing.

New plugs are going as well but I think the carbs need a little adjustment and my battery is completely finished as well and barely holds a charge.
 
Plain old motor oil is fine for the 850 MkIII primary case (still having the hydraulic tensioner fitted, and was the original recommended oil).
 
Coco, Yes do the mods but not before you get to know the systems and tune the bike the way it is. Start with electrics first. Don't change anything just maintain it first. Try to teach yourself the pathways of energy through out the bike. Replace the known things that go wrong like all the female bullet connectors.Run some extra ground wires(red) clean the switches all of them. Look for broken wires and loose blade connectors.
Then and only then go into the carbs idle jet cleaning, needle jet condition , air leaks at gaskets and or O- rings. How are the petcocks? Is the tank clean?
Then go into the oil system a bit. Is there sludge in the bottom of the tank?I s the pressure relief piston all scratched up with a weak old spring? How are the oil lines? Then wheels and brakes ...
All good now the new ignition system...and the new... one piece at a time. Ride it a lot as you go. I would hate to see you hating this bike, learn to love it by learning it, than changing it. JMO
 
I really appreciate posts like norbsa48503 recently submitted, as it really does show a kind of hard-won-by-experience apprenticeship and love of a tradition/machine/craft. I conjoin the latter three terms intentionally. One has no doubt about norbsa48503's devotion and history with the machine. That's invaluable. His/her walking you (us) through the "know the systems" and "tune the bike the way it is," hits me as pragmatc and sage advice. "Don't change anything just maintain it first" is dead on, for sure. Can't go wrong --Again, Dead On.

Cheers to norba48503, I say.

I've been on a few bike lists, here and there. I can say that the lubrication question seems to BRING IT ON. I dunno why. I think everyone is right. And no one is. That's part 'o the fun.

I'm no old-timer as far as Norton goes. But I do wonder: if lubricants are such a small price in comparison to everything else, and as long as over-kill does not cause damage, why not opt for something that might prolong the life of these work-of-art machines? It's kind of a new versus old question. Unfortunately. And it need not be.

Good ole motor oil may have been fine, may be still fine, in fact, every day of the week. But in the Norton spirit, it does no harm to charge ahead and see what the more engineered lubricants offer our most enlightened vehicle.

Just my .02

wrench
 
wrench said:
Good ole motor oil may have been fine, may be still fine, in fact, every day of the week. But in the Norton spirit, it does no harm to charge ahead and see what the more engineered lubricants offer our most enlightened vehicle.
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One small point, please note that Coco's question (and my answer) was about the lubrication requirement for the (850 MkIII) primary drive, which needs to be considered as a separate issue to the engine oil.
 
norbsa48503 said:
Coco, Yes do the mods but not before you get to know the systems and tune the bike the way it is. Start with electrics first. Don't change anything just maintain it first. Try to teach yourself the pathways of energy through out the bike. Replace the known things that go wrong like all the female bullet connectors.Run some extra ground wires(red) clean the switches all of them. Look for broken wires and loose blade connectors.
Then and only then go into the carbs idle jet cleaning, needle jet condition , air leaks at gaskets and or O- rings. How are the petcocks? Is the tank clean?
Then go into the oil system a bit. Is there sludge in the bottom of the tank?I s the pressure relief piston all scratched up with a weak old spring? How are the oil lines? Then wheels and brakes ...
All good now the new ignition system...and the new... one piece at a time. Ride it a lot as you go. I would hate to see you hating this bike, learn to love it by learning it, than changing it. JMO
Click to expand...

I like your Zen approach and will take your recommendations as fact.

I need to go through it. The bike did have a complete service over a year ago and has not been riden much since and then of course I bought it.

I will look at the wiring when I take the tank off to install a Dave Taylor head steady. The inside of the tank is spotless and I did order some new petcocks but have not installed them. The fuel lines are a bit leaky at the "T" connector so I'll simply try trimming the ends and refitting before replacing everything.

The oil lines are a bit grungy and there is oil residue around the tank and any wiring or hoses located near it. Could be from a sloopy oil change and be overspill? I'll have to investigat more closely. I don't think the tank is leaky but the hoses might be a bit tired or just need to be trimmed and refitted.

I was planning on doing all new oil lines when the bike gets ripped apart next winter for the engine rebuild but I will clean everything up and see if any leakage occurs. I never thought about checking the pressure relief valve but I will when I drain the oil for the oil change.

Wheels are getting replaced so I won't bother checking the old, but after an initial inspection they are true and in good shape. Hubs are getting machined for double row sealed bearings at CNW, then sent off to Buchanan for the new rims and spokes. I am doing the brakes when the wheels are off the bike.

As far as electrics, all control switches are new Honda ones as I have new clutch and front brake levers due to the front Brembo system. The Sparx system will be on my doorstep any day now so I'm just going to install everything and rewire the switches at the same time since the tank will be off anyway.

My first venture will be the front fork rebuild and rear shock replacement after a complete fluid change in the whole bike.
 
Coco, I really think that you should remove the oil tank for thorough cleaning and inspection. This is a fiddly job as one really needs ratchet wrists and universal joints for knuckles to get the bottom bolt out.

The problem with the bottom mount is that if the top rubbers perish, it carries all the weight and will often split around the lug. Add to this that spilt or leaking oil will have turned the bottom rubber to jelly.

If your bike has been run with a breather into the tank then there will definitely be water present which the oil, of course, floats on top of. The drain plug doesn't drain the tank completely, even if you tilt the bike over till the footrest touches (I do this with a Roadster but wouldn't try it with a fully tanked Interstate).

As a check on what is at the bottom of the tank, unscrew the rear tank filter and, ignoring any Freudian misgivings, stick your finger in, wriggle it about and see what you can feel.

By the way, unless you know who did it, I wouldn't place too much value on a Commando being "fully serviced" Just going through the manual check list will achieve little. As Norbsa says, the art is in checking everything and acting on the slightest suspicion. Just because it's not in the book doesn't mean you can ignore it.

In more than 20 years of thrashing around the UK and Europe, mine has never left me stranded at the roadside. My goodness though, I've done some preventative maintenance in that time :)
 
79x100 said:
Coco, I really think that you should remove the oil tank for thorough cleaning and inspection. This is a fiddly job as one really needs ratchet wrists and universal joints for knuckles to get the bottom bolt out.

The problem with the bottom mount is that if the top rubbers perish, it carries all the weight and will often split around the lug. Add to this that spilt or leaking oil will have turned the bottom rubber to jelly.

If your bike has been run with a breather into the tank then there will definitely be water present which the oil, of course, floats on top of. The drain plug doesn't drain the tank completely, even if you tilt the bike over till the footrest touches (I do this with a Roadster but wouldn't try it with a fully tanked Interstate).

As a check on what is at the bottom of the tank, unscrew the rear tank filter and, ignoring any Freudian misgivings, stick your finger in, wriggle it about and see what you can feel.

By the way, unless you know who did it, I wouldn't place too much value on a Commando being "fully serviced" Just going through the manual check list will achieve little. As Norbsa says, the art is in checking everything and acting on the slightest suspicion. Just because it's not in the book doesn't mean you can ignore it.

In more than 20 years of thrashing around the UK and Europe, mine has never left me stranded at the roadside. My goodness though, I've done some preventative maintenance in that time :)
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I'll check into it. I just wiggled the oil tank and it is solidly in place and the rubber mounts seem ok. The slight leakage seems to come from where the hoses join the tank so my initial guess was old hose and crappy clamps that have simply worn out.

there is a breather tube sticking out of the top front of the oil tank hanging down through the engine out the botom of the bike.

Is this something I should completely get rid of and plug the breather tube hole on the oil tank?
 
Coco said:
there is a breather tube sticking out of the top front of the oil tank hanging down through the engine out the botom of the bike.

Is this something I should completely get rid of and plug the breather tube hole on the oil tank?
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I have the breather tube running from the oil tank to a small plastic bottle (to which I fitted a one-way valve) fitted low down in the cradle between the engine and gearbox and it has caused no problems (doesn't blow or dump oil etc.) -so far.
 
L.A.B. said:
Coco said:
there is a breather tube sticking out of the top front of the oil tank hanging down through the engine out the botom of the bike.

Is this something I should completely get rid of and plug the breather tube hole on the oil tank?
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I have the breather tube running from the oil tank to a small plastic bottle (to which I fitted a one-way valve) fitted low down in the cradle between the engine and gearbox and it has caused no problems (doesn't blow or dump oil etc.) -so far.
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Neither does mine.
 
If you run the breather direct from the timing chest to atmosphere, then you're going to have to make arrangements to catch any oil in the event of over-enthusiastic breathing or starting with a sump full of oil.

Many of us retain the engine to oil tank connection but remove the oil tank to inlet tract line as that causes all sorts of problems (fouled air filters or ultimately sticking inlet valves if enough oil gets carried through)

I simply run a line from the tank to the rear of the machine and although there is sometimes a light mist on the number plate after high-speed useage, it's not a problem (don't overfill the oil tank though or sales of car windscreen washer in your part of the world will shoot up :) )
 
79x100 said:
If you run the breather direct from the timing chest to atmosphere, then you're going to have to make arrangements to catch any oil in the event of over-enthusiastic breathing or starting with a sump full of oil.

Many of us retain the engine to oil tank connection but remove the oil tank to inlet tract line as that causes all sorts of problems (fouled air filters or ultimately sticking inlet valves if enough oil gets carried through)

I simply run a line from the tank to the rear of the machine and although there is sometimes a light mist on the number plate after high-speed useage, it's not a problem (don't overfill the oil tank though or sales of car windscreen washer in your part of the world will shoot up :) )
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Without my shop manual in front of me I can't visualize the oil tank to inlet tract. Which part of the oil tank does that connection occur at? Top or side?

I have my bike stored here at work, but no manual to refernce right now. I am really curious about this.
 
The pipe from the timing chest enters the oil tank on the filler neck and the subsequent outlet to the inlet tract is on top of the tower slightly forward of the filler.

From memory on the Mk111 (I threw mine away 20 years ago) the pipe ran to a separator which was supposed to ensure that gases entered via the air filter and oil via a T-piece in the balance pipe on top of the carb manifolds. The usual result is just a sticky mess.

If you no longer have your "black box" then something has already been done with this arrangement.
 
79x100 said:
The pipe from the timing chest enters the oil tank on the filler neck and the subsequent outlet to the inlet tract is on top of the tower slightly forward of the filler.

From memory on the Mk111 (I threw mine away 20 years ago) the pipe ran to a separator which was supposed to ensure that gases entered via the air filter and oil via a T-piece in the balance pipe on top of the carb manifolds. The usual result is just a sticky mess.

If you no longer have your "black box" then something has already been done with this arrangement.
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Thanks. By timing chest I assume you simply mean timing chain cover? If so I know which oil tube you are speaking of. I can just connect the dots and follow it up to the tank.

Black Box?????? I guess something has been done since I don't know what that is. Interesting.

I have a single Mikuni with a K&N filter so the stock system is long gone so there is no breather tube in that area.
 
Coco said:
Thanks. By timing chest I assume you simply mean timing chain cover? If so I know which oil tube you are speaking of. I can just connect the dots and follow it up to the tank.

Yes, that's the one, it runs from the angled tube behind the right-hand cylinder.

Black Box?????? I guess something has been done since I don't know what that is. Interesting.

I have a single Mikuni with a K&N filter so the stock system is long gone so there is no breather tube in that area.
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The "Black box" is what I've always called the ugly (but I bet someone, somewhere loves them !) air box as fitted to the models with Annular Discharge silencers.

If you have a K&N then the pipe from the breather tower on the oil tank must be running somewhere else, presumably to atmosphere. I would be inclined to run it as it is and see how you find it.

You can be glad that someone else removed the filter box because I have a suspicion that they welded the frame up around it :roll: Even with Engine / transmission out, it's a tight fit.
 
Thanks. I'm basically learning as I go with the oil system and its connections. I'm going to tear into it this weekend and I actually have to install one of those anti-wet sump valves too.

There are two metal tubes side by side, running out of the engine that rubber oil hoses are connected to. I assume the one on the outside is the hose I splice the anti-wet sump valve into? That is what I gathered by looking at my parts book diagram.
 
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