Let's not say SG Nortons

TVS bought prototypes from Garner, and we were all the guinea pigs.
I can't think of another motorcycle or automobile that attempted such a grassroots start-up of a product in this corporate era, initially with limited funds (Dreer) and later with ill gotten ones (Garner). I applaud the effort. The only thing TVS lacks is the actual motivation to continue the line as they are a company looking for a future with a respected brand name but little else involving Norton history.
 
I can't think of another motorcycle or automobile that attempted such a grassroots start-up of a product in this corporate era, initially with limited funds (Dreer) and later with ill gotten ones (Garner). I applaud the effort. The only thing TVS lacks is the actual motivation to continue the line as they are a company looking for a future with a respected brand name but little else involving Norton history.
What does TVS actually mean to Norton? Or better question, what does Norton mean to TVS? The original Norton dominated the race circuits. Today it’s just a brand name that’s hardly known to even exist
 
What does TVS actually mean to Norton? Or better question, what does Norton mean to TVS? The original Norton dominated the race circuits. Today it’s just a brand name that’s hardly known to even exist
What does TVS actually mean to Norton? Money - to enable relaunch of the marque.
What does Norton mean to TVS? Money - the opportunity to make it that is, they’re a commercial organisation.

You obviously move in different biker circles than I do V2D3. There would’nt be a biker ‘alive and upright’ in the UK that doesn’t know of Norton Motorcycles, and it’s recent relaunch. Noting that is Birmingham Norton’s target audience ATM. Birmingham Norton are hardly gonna be marketing to the bike lovin‘ folks of Birmingham Alabama, until Nortons are available in the US. I’d say that Norton as historical marque would be well known by close to 100% of those bikers likely to buy one.
 
I know where Voodoo is coming from. When I rode Route 66 a few years ago I mainly wore a couple of Norton T shirts. Along the way, talking to people in bars etc, mostly people with some biking interest, the lack of knowledge of Norton being a motorcycle brand really surprised me.
It’s very niche over there. Even in the 50s and 60s it was, as Norton sales were totally eclipsed by BSA and Triumph.
 
What does TVS actually mean to Norton? Money - to enable relaunch of the marque.
What does Norton mean to TVS? Money - the opportunity to make it that is, they’re a commercial organisation.

You obviously move in different biker circles than I do V2D3. There would’nt be a biker ‘alive and upright’ in the UK that doesn’t know of Norton Motorcycles, and it’s recent relaunch. Noting that is Birmingham Norton’s target audience ATM. Birmingham Norton are hardly gonna be marketing to the bike lovin‘ folks of Birmingham Alabama, until Nortons are available in the US. I’d say that Norton as historical marque would be well known by close to 100% of those bikers likely to buy one.
Do you honestly believe that the world knows that Norton is back in business?
Two things that TVS really sucks at is advertising, and news.

With all due respect, your circle of bikers is just a pin drop, ask the millions of bikes in the world, or even just in one country, and I’ll wager to say, more don’t know of Nortons existence.

All companies are in business to make money.
But I strongly disbelieve that TVS has any interest of going racing. I may be wrong, but until I see it, I won’t believe it.

I’m NOT saying bikers never heard of Norton. I’m saying many don’t even know they are in business making bikes today. Or have been since Donington days.

When I ride my Nortons, people ask me about my bikes, and nearly all of them that know of the classic Nortons say they had no idea Norton still made bikes.

Only older bikers know what Norton is, ask a biker under the age of 40 or 50 and you’ll get a deer in headlights stare.

That’s not true for Triumph.
Why you ask? Because Triumph is better at advertising and marketing, and they also make and offer a wider range of product and have a dealer network.

Something Norton hasn’t had since the 1970s or will never have even in the future.

It’s easier for a person here in the USA to go out and buy a new BSA Gold Star than it is to buy a new Norton.
If you did own a new Goldie, I’m sure you’d get the exact same looks and questions from older riders and the same “I didn’t know BSA was still making motorcycles “
 
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Far too specific.
The "Donington Norton's" defines an era of the Norton name on a tank...end of.
Better stop talking about Rotary Nortons and start calling them Shenstone Nortons…..The detail of what was made when, where and by whom will no doubt be the subject of the latest Norton History books……in the meantime I am content that my 2013 Sport has a sticker on the top yoke stating, ‘Norton hand built at Donington Park’
 
Do you honestly believe that the world knows that Norton is back in business?
Two things that TVS really sucks at is advertising, and news.

With all due respect, your circle of bikers is just a pin drop, ask the millions of bikes in the world, or even just in one country, and I’ll wager to say, more don’t know of Nortons existence.

All companies are in business to make money.
But I strongly disbelieve that TVS has any interest of going racing. I may be wrong, but until I see it, I won’t believe it.

I’m NOT saying bikers never heard of Norton. I’m saying many don’t even know they are in business making bikes today. Or have been since Donington days.

When I ride my Nortons, people ask me about my bikes, and nearly all of them that know of the classic Nortons say they had no idea Norton still made bikes.

Only older bikers know what Norton is, ask a biker under the age of 40 or 50 and you’ll get a deer in headlights stare.

That’s not true for Triumph.
Why you ask? Because Triumph is better at advertising and marketing, and they also make and offer a wider range of product and have a dealer network.

Something Norton hasn’t had since the 1970s or will never have even in the future.

It’s easier for a person here in the USA to go out and buy a new BSA Gold Star than it is to buy a new Norton.
If you did own a new Goldie, I’m sure you’d get the exact same looks and questions from older riders and the same “I didn’t know BSA was still making motorcycles “
What you say is all true. Motorcycle riders who weren't even around in the 70s , especially those with strong brand loyalties and identities, are unlikely to know what a Norton is, or care for that matter. If they read magazines like Cycle world they would have read about the 961, and if they have read it recently they would know it's current unstable status. Otherwise it is not common knowledge in the states that Norton has been selling motorcycles again for over a decade. I think it's fair to call the 961 a true Norton since it's design evolves from people very involved in Norton history and craftsmanship. It even looks like a Norton and has many of the same types of flaws.
I do know that here in Arizona when I pull up to a motorcycle destination, people's eyes light up and you hear "Norton" as they come to ask questions and look in admiration at the external quality of the bike. Even at traffic lights people ask me to tell them about my bike. The mystique is still there just as it is with Vincent.
In the U.S. we had perhaps 10 Norton dealers and zero marketing. I've had numerous Nortons since 1972 and I didn't even know about the 961 until 2017. Motorcycle enthusiasts and historians know what the Norton brand is. It is up to TVS to market it so that both the nostalgia and modern cyclists become or remain interested.
Royal Enfield has been continuously making motorcycles but only in the last few years are they making any effort to market them in the U.S.
Triumph has also been almost continuously making motorcycles other than for a short time in the 80s. It took them until the last decade to again become competitive here.
If Norton is going to thrive in modern times it is going to take time, commitment, patience, a quality cross generational product and marketing. We'll see how inclusive and effective TVS is in time.

Born
Thirukkurungudi Vengaram Sundram Iyengar
22 March 1877

Died
28 April 1955
 

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  • Let's not say SG Nortons
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Better stop talking about Rotary Nortons and start calling them Shenstone Nortons…..The detail of what was made when, where and by whom will no doubt be the subject of the latest Norton History books……in the meantime I am content that my 2013 Sport has a sticker on the top yoke stating, ‘Norton hand built at Donington Park’
Well, your very last statement just backs up the Donington Nortons bit 🤣 Just a shame that not all models had plaques.
Donington Norton's as a phrase covers everything from the Stuart Garner era....no if's or but's. Was it built in Donington (park or Hall)...if so...its a Donington Norton.
 
Better stop talking about Rotary Nortons and start calling them Shenstone Nortons…..The detail of what was made when, where and by whom will no doubt be the subject of the latest Norton History books……
Add it to the list.
Another issue is the V4
If we say "Donington Norton" are we referring to the Commando, or the V4.
This whole convention could become a bit confusing, no?
Should we refer to the model in the reference. such as Donington Commando, or Donington V4?
Dreer Norton is fine since he only produced a Commando twin prototype.
Now, the Solihull or Birmingham factory will produce a Commando, V4, and other future models.
How shall we properly reference the Commando twin in this case, Solihull Commando?
Do we really want to go down this road?
Just some food for thought.
 
Well, your very last statement just backs up the Donington Nortons bit 🤣 Just a shame that not all models had plaques.
Donington Norton's as a phrase covers everything from the Stuart Garner era....no if's or but's. Was it built in Donington (park or Hall)...if so...its a Donington Norton.
Can’t fault the logic…..just off on my Shenstone!! 👌
 
Well, your very last statement just backs up the Donington Nortons bit 🤣 Just a shame that not all models had plaques.
Donington Norton's as a phrase covers everything from the Stuart Garner era....no if's or but's. Was it built in Donington (park or Hall)...if so...its a Donington Norton.
Stu I reckon we need to meet up in the new year and chat this over a pint or two!? All the best
 
Do you honestly believe that the world knows that Norton is back in business?
Two things that TVS really sucks at is advertising, and news.

With all due respect, your circle of bikers is just a pin drop, ask the millions of bikes in the world, or even just in one country, and I’ll wager to say, more don’t know of Nortons existence.

All companies are in business to make money.
But I strongly disbelieve that TVS has any interest of going racing. I may be wrong, but until I see it, I won’t believe it.

I’m NOT saying bikers never heard of Norton. I’m saying many don’t even know they are in business making bikes today. Or have been since Donington days.

When I ride my Nortons, people ask me about my bikes, and nearly all of them that know of the classic Nortons say they had no idea Norton still made bikes.

Only older bikers know what Norton is, ask a biker under the age of 40 or 50 and you’ll get a deer in headlights stare.

That’s not true for Triumph.
Why you ask? Because Triumph is better at advertising and marketing, and they also make and offer a wider range of product and have a dealer network.

Something Norton hasn’t had since the 1970s or will never have even in the future.

It’s easier for a person here in the USA to go out and buy a new BSA Gold Star than it is to buy a new Norton.
If you did own a new Goldie, I’m sure you’d get the exact same looks and questions from older riders and the same “I didn’t know BSA was still making motorcycles “
Ah V2V3 my friend,

I know that you only completely misrepresent what I say as a vague antagonism, at least I hope so anyway :oops: cos it always makes me laugh! I also know that we are polar opposites on the optimism spectrum - my superhero name would be ‘Optimus,’ where yours would clearly be ‘Negatron’!😂

I wrote:

“………..There would’nt be a biker ‘alive and upright’ in the UK that doesn’t know of Norton Motorcycles, and it’s recent relaunch. Noting that is Birmingham Norton’s target audience ATM. Birmingham Norton are hardly gonna be marketing to the bike lovin‘ folks of Birmingham Alabama, until Nortons are available in the US. I’d say that Norton as a historical marque would be well known by close to 100% of those bikers likely to buy one.

To which you replied:

‘Do you honestly believe that the world knows that Norton is back in business? ….. ask the millions of bikers in the world, or even just in one country, and I’ll wager to say, more don’t know of Nortons existence”. Before going on to describe ‘the world’ in terms of America (we’ll leave that one alone I think LOL🤣)

It‘s blindingly obvious that: there would be little knowledge of Norton‘s relaunch in countries where they are yet to advertise/export; Triumph are much better known cos they sell bikes in the US; Older people are more likely to have heard of Norton; that its easier for an American to buy a motorcycle that’s available for sale.

It’s not blindingly obvious that Birmingham Norton will “….never have even in the future”….a…“..wide range of products”…and a “…dealer network.“

Optimus prefers to look at the possibility that Birmingham Norton may have a future and may actually do what they say they intend to do. I enjoy our warm chats Negatron, I just wish that you lived a little closer so that I could give you the occasional hug, pat you on the back and tell you that everything’s gonna be OK! Jeez, I’m chokin’ up here😭!

1EB19996-CCB3-4134-8815-48F3D19B6A58.jpeg
 
Ah V2V3 my friend,

I know that you only completely misrepresent what I say as a vague antagonism, at least I hope so anyway :oops: cos it always makes me laugh! I also know that we are polar opposites on the optimism spectrum - my superhero name would be ‘Optimus,’ where yours would clearly be ‘Negatron’!😂

I wrote:

“………..There would’nt be a biker ‘alive and upright’ in the UK that doesn’t know of Norton Motorcycles, and it’s recent relaunch. Noting that is Birmingham Norton’s target audience ATM. Birmingham Norton are hardly gonna be marketing to the bike lovin‘ folks of Birmingham Alabama, until Nortons are available in the US. I’d say that Norton as a historical marque would be well known by close to 100% of those bikers likely to buy one.

To which you replied:

‘Do you honestly believe that the world knows that Norton is back in business? ….. ask the millions of bikers in the world, or even just in one country, and I’ll wager to say, more don’t know of Nortons existence”. Before going on to describe ‘the world’ in terms of America (we’ll leave that one alone I think LOL🤣)

It‘s blindingly obvious that: there would be little knowledge of Norton‘s relaunch in countries where they are yet to advertise/export; Triumph are much better known cos they sell bikes in the US; Older people are more likely to have heard of Norton; that its easier for an American to buy a motorcycle that’s available for sale.

It’s not blindingly obvious that Birmingham Norton will “….never have even in the future”….a…“..wide range of products”…and a “…dealer network.“

Optimus prefers to look at the possibility that Birmingham Norton may have a future and may actually do what they say they intend to do. I enjoy our warm chats Negatron, I just wish that you lived a little closer so that I could give you the occasional hug, pat you on the back and tell you that everything’s gonna be OK! Jeez, I’m chokin’ up here😭!

View attachment 101258
I know you misinterpreted my post and that’s ok.
I also don’t do hugs. Sorry. 😂
 
Hey BB,

It would appear that others agree!

View attachment 100776
Well, at the risk of antagonising the Norton Owners Club ( :rolleyes: heaven forbid) and because I have way too much time on my hands, I blatantly stole Frank‘s idea and had some decals made up.

9A04CF56-9B0F-4AE0-A397-E06549BD8215.jpeg

Undecided where to put it/them (if anywhere). Maybe discretely on the frame tube, or chain guard. Couple on those shiny carbon wheels may look good. Whichever way you look at it though, that’s a three beer proposition. Make sure bike is shiny; ponder positioning; fix decal, screw it up, fix another one! Simples!

Where would you put them? And don’t say wedge em up yer clacker!! :oops:
 
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Well, at the risk of antagonising the Norton Owners Club ( :rolleyes: heaven forbid) and because I have way too much time on my hands, I blatantly stole Frank‘s idea and had some decals made up.

View attachment 101373

Undecided where to put it/them (if anywhere). Maybe discretely on the frame tube, or chain guard. Couple on those shiny carbon wheels may look good. Whichever way you look at it though, that’s a three beer proposition. Make sure bike is shiny; ponder positioning; fix decal, screw it up, fix another one! Simples!

Where would you put them? And don’t say wedge em up yer clacker!! :oops:
You really want to display where your bike was assembled?

Get a “made in China” decal for the motor too
 
C’Mon Negatron, give us some love! Ya know you can do it!!

Need the stickers just in case a random passer by misses the Donington detail on the dash! We Brits love a bit of heritage! A bit like you Americans and your Harley heritage classics!!

Let's not say SG Nortons
 
Want heritage? Buy a Triumph.
Owned by a Brit and some are still made in Uk.
But a lot of that Triumph is not made in England either . Probably comes from Pacific Rim , which includes Thailand etc. We know the Norton is built in England with some British content. I am just happy that they are making it at all.
 
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