Latest TriSpark EI

Derek Wilson

Derek Wilson

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Jun 25, 2004
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I picked up a new TriSpark from Walridge last week for a Commando, and Mike told me that they have commonized the CCW and CW pickup rotation models into one product. Great!!

Looking at the pickup plate, all of the timing markings are the same, there is just no marking on the decal indicating a dedicated pickup rotation.

So I proceeded to install it following the provided instructions that are the same as the previous models - and I realized something - all of the initial setup has to be done with the CW setup marks. If you use the CCW (or anti-clockwise) marks, your base timing will be way off - actually super advanced - potentially dangerous if you were to try to start it at this point with the kicker.

It is imperative that the LED be used to verify your timing is close before trying to start the engine. In my case, it was too retarded when I started it, but it would at least run, and I had enough adjustment to get it running correctly.

The instructions need to be updated. I told Mike about it and he is going to contact them.

Hope this helps!!
 
Derek Wilson said:
Looking at the pickup plate, all of the timing markings are the same, there is just no marking on the decal indicating a dedicated pickup rotation.
Click to expand...

Is this just a case of having the wrong instruction sheet?
According to the instructions for the latest type the markings are 'AC' (Anti/Counter-Clockwise) and 'CW' (Clockwise). Previously, they were 'A' (Clockwise) and 'B' (Anti/Counter-Clock.) ...

Latest TriSpark EI


...however, it appears the timing marks on the latest version are reversed so the upper 'AC' position is for anticlockwise rotation instead of the previous lower 'B' position.
Latest TriSpark EI

...
 
L.A.B. said:
Is this just a case of having the wrong instruction sheet?
Click to expand...
Yes - the instructions are misleading - new ones are required.

The new pick-up plate has the "AC" and "CW" markings, and looks like the final picture that you posted. But marking it at the "AC" marking will not work - has to be marked at the "CW" marking for the static timing to work with the LED.

I hope this makes sense.
 
Yes - there is something afoot here. In order to get the LED to come on at the 29 degree timing mark, I had to place the rotor at the CW mark... That is my observation - maybe I am reading the static timing procedure wrong?

At any rate, to be conservative, I would think that you would want the initial base timing to be a bit retarded to get the motor running, then advance it to the correct setting using a timing light.

All indications that I had from double checking my work before attempting a start was that base timing was too advanced.
 
Derek Wilson said:
Yes - the instructions are misleading - new ones are required.

The new pick-up plate has the "AC" and "CW" markings, and looks like the final picture that you posted. But marking it at the "AC" marking will not work - has to be marked at the "CW" marking for the static timing to work with the LED.

I hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...
Hi Derek I am a Trispark Reseller and live close by to Steve Kelly at Trispark so get to fit and use a lot of the new Trispark products on my bikes in fact I have the first test unit of this later type fitted to my Mark 2A Interstate and has been on the bike for just under 12 months
I have just checked the fitting instructions and it is correct when fitting to a Commando use the AC line to set it up. This is correct I would post an image of another one that I have just fitted with these AC mark lined up But can’t work out how to get images onto this forum. Can’t explain why it did not work with yours it might be that you did not quite line it up correctly with the magnets on the rotor.
I will talk to Steve Kelly on Monday and see if anyone else has experienced this
Regards
Gerard
Classic Bike Repairs
South Australia
 
Just a theory - not even well thought out... Since they now work in either direction, it may be that you installed with the BDC rotor timing mark - a mistake often made with the earlier unit which caused the timing to be off 90 degrees.

It's easy enough to check. With the pistons near TDC (visually check) and the timing mark at 29 degrees, see what the Tri-Spark rotor magnets line up with. Now do the same after rotating the engine to put the other timing mark at 29 degrees. Which does the mark you added line up with?
 
marshg246 said:
Just a theory - not even well thought out... Since they now work in either direction, it may be that you installed with the BDC rotor timing mark - a mistake often made with the earlier unit which caused the timing to be off 90 degrees.

It's easy enough to check. With the pistons near TDC (visually check) and the timing mark at 29 degrees, see what the Tri-Spark rotor magnets line up with. Now do the same after rotating the engine to put the other timing mark at 29 degrees. Which does the mark you added line up with?
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Hi Greg - No, I did make sure of that - I had the plugs out and checked that the pistons were rising to ensure that I had the right mark on the rotor.

I verified it about three times, and the LED would only come on when the magnets were aligned with the CW mark on the plate.
 
The easiest would be somone with a Mk3, as you can simply check the slot in the crank which is 30 BTDC against the LED.
I have few of the new kits on my bench, so I could do it.
 
Gerard Rowley said:
Hi Derek I am a Trispark Reseller and live close by to Steve Kelly at Trispark so get to fit and use a lot of the new Trispark products on my bikes in fact I have the first test unit of this later type fitted to my Mark 2A Interstate and has been on the bike for just under 12 months
I have just checked the fitting instructions and it is correct when fitting to a Commando use the AC line to set it up. This is correct I would post an image of another one that I have just fitted with these AC mark lined up But can’t work out how to get images onto this forum. Can’t explain why it did not work with yours it might be that you did not quite line it up correctly with the magnets on the rotor.
I will talk to Steve Kelly on Monday and see if anyone else has experienced this
Regards
Gerard
Classic Bike Repairs
South Australia
Click to expand...
Gerard,
Please let us know what you find out.
Thanks,Mike
 
Hi Mike I have called into see Steve Kelly at Trispark and discussed this issue of the initial timing set up with this latest Trispark Classic twin ignition system TRI 006.
If the correct instructions are used and followed the LED light will activate when the appropriate CW or AC marks Align, that is as long as you correctly align the rotor as per the instruction. The way they are manufactured and internal components positioned the LED light can only operate in the correct position ie CW or AC
Each Trispark unit manufactured is tested and run on a test rig before being packaged up and sent out to a customer. I have just fitted another one of these latest Trispark Classic twin units to a Commando and the light came on when it lined up with the AC
Steve said that we will make a video of us fitting one to a Commando and we will post the video on his website for peoples reference.
 
The air gap is critical, so it needs to correct. If the gap is too great, the bike will start but struggle to rev as the revs rise.
 
Madnorton said:
The air gap is critical, so it needs to correct. If the gap is too great, the bike will start but struggle to rev as the revs rise.
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Much is talked about in the instructions regarding the minimum gap between the rotor and plate, but what would be considered too much gap?
 
Okay, so I went out and started over again with the setup on the same bike that started this conversation. I set the rotor to match the Anti-clockwise position with the timing mark at 29 degrees, ignored the LED, and just started the bike. Strobing it at 3500, it had about 44 degrees of advance, backed it off to 30 degrees on my second attempt and I am calling it good there. Still have a little bit of slot left if needed.

So - my hunch was right - setting it up at the CW position does mean that it is going to be too far advanced, but not so much that there is a danger in starting the bike, or so it would seem in my case. Not sure if this is useful information, but this is what I found.

I think that to be conservative, maybe setting it up, and then turning the pickup plate to the fully retarded position before starting would be a safe option - thoughts?

Edit: I also verified that the rotor gap was in spec (2mm +/- 0.6mm) - it measured 2.24 mm.
 
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Derek Wilson said:
Okay, so I went out and started over again with the setup on the same bike that started this conversation. I set the rotor to match the Anti-clockwise position with the timing mark at 29 degrees, ignored the LED, and just started the bike. Strobing it at 3500, it had about 44 degrees of advance, backed it off to 30 degrees on my second attempt and I am calling it good there. Still have a little bit of slot left if needed.

So - my hunch was right - setting it up at the CW position does mean that it is going to be too far advanced, but not so much that there is a danger in starting the bike, or so it would seem in my case. Not sure if this is useful information, but this is what I found.

I think that to be conservative, maybe setting it up, and then turning the pickup plate to the fully retarded position before starting would be a safe option - thoughts?
Click to expand...
Parallax Error!

I've never had a new install off by more than 2 degrees when set statically and strobe checked. You have to get down where your one open eye is at the same level as the Tri-Spark stator and mark the case. Then I use the provided plastic as a straight edge to align the magnets with the mark. If you hold it on edge, you can see the magnets through it and that makes it easy to align the rotor perfectly with your mark, again with one open eye at the same level as the rotor.
 
marshg246 said:
Parallax Error!

I've never had a new install off by more than 2 degrees when set statically and strobe checked. You have to get down where your one open eye is at the same level as the Tri-Spark stator and mark the case. Then I use the provided plastic as a straight edge to align the magnets with the mark. If you hold it on edge, you can see the magnets through it and that makes it easy to align the rotor perfectly with your mark, again with one open eye at the same level as the rotor.
Click to expand...
No getting down in my case, bike was up on my bench, which has a deck height of 30". I am 5' 7.5", so not hard to get it at eye level.

I also use the little plastic straight edge provided to align the magnets to the "scribed" mark I make. Not sure what else I can do to make this more precise....

Have you installed one of the new ambidextrous ones yet?

If you lived closer, I would invite you over to have a look for yourself.
 
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Derek Wilson said:
No getting down in my case, bike was up on my bench, which has a deck height of 30". I am 5' 7.5", so not hard to get it at eye level.

I also use the little plastic straight edge provided to align the magnets to the "scribed" mark I make. Not sure what else I can do to make this more precise....

Have you installed one of the new ambidextrous ones yet?

If you lived closer, I would invite you over to have a look for yourself.
Click to expand...
Many of the prior version and none yet of the new - still have few in stock. Since you were way off, it's clear that the rotor was off. 14 degrees at the crank is 7 degrees at the magnets. The AC/CW marks are WAY more than 7 degrees apart.

With great accuracy, you can get the timing right with the slot close to centered setting statically. When statically setting, assuming your mark is accurate and the magnets are accurately aligned, then it's a matter of accurately determining when the light JUST comes on.
 
marshg246 said:
Many of the prior version and none yet of the new - still have few in stock. Since you were way off, it's clear that the rotor was off. 14 degrees at the crank is 7 degrees at the magnets. The AC/CW marks are WAY more than 7 degrees apart.

With great accuracy, you can get the timing right with the slot close to centered setting statically. When statically setting, assuming your mark is accurate and the magnets are accurately aligned, then it's a matter of accurately determining when the light JUST comes on.
Click to expand...
Okay, before you write me completely write me off, please install one of the new ones and get back to me.


Also - I did not state that setting it at the CW mark resulted in perfect timing - it was seriously retarded in that position. I only stated that the LED triggered in that position. Hazarding a very imprecise guess, perfect timing occurs somewhere in between the 2 marks.
 
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