Kill Switch

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swooshdave

swooshdave

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Is the stock handlebar kill switch normally closed and open when pressed?

Kill Switch

I assume on this diagram the kill switch would go between the ignition switch and coil?

Kill Switch

In this diagram, is the kill switch shown incorrectly in that the kill switch should be closed?
 
Yes, kill is constanty hot with ign key on,
pressing opens switch momentary till released.

Great feature for non clutch WOT dragster shifts, but too small and
hard to hit to work well for that and
must hold down a while till engine
stops turning or just keeps running, not good if bike on top
and gas leaking and you can't reach kill or too injured to even
hold it long enough to matter.

I'm bypassing kill switch on Ms Peel to use rip cord kill
like my hydro plane boats and about any motor sport
pilot can expect to be ejected in crashes.

hobot
 
If you use an ignition relay (SPST) the magnet is always energized while the bike is running. Is that a "bad thing"? Does it "wear out" being on all the time? Or does the relay not care?

The other way I can think of doing it is to use a SPDT relay and set the "Run" Setting to the Closed terminal 87a and then when you hit the Kill Switch it opens (87) and the ignition is dead.

I know it sounds like overkill but running my ignition power into the handlebar switch, through the kill switch and back to ignition just doesn't seem right.
 
Hi , I am with you , as I want to redo all my wiring , and add a kill switch (following Ludwig's advise and some other clever guys on that forum....), previously I would run the hot wire from battery/powerbox to the bars and switch , but now I think it's a bit funky, so thinking putting any relay between, and so wait more info...................
 
Seems to me the Kill Switch should be as simple and direct as possible. What can go wrong, will eventually. One switch = only one thing to go wrong.
 
Diablouph said:
Seems to me the Kill Switch should be as simple and direct as possible. What can go wrong, will eventually. One switch = only one thing to go wrong.
Click to expand...

And, unfortunately, the factory kill switch is of nortoriously poor reliability. Mine became intermittant when the bike was only a few years old. I tried everything - cleaning the contacts, stretching the spring, etc - and finally ended up bypassing it. The internal parts are not available as spares and I refuse to uglify my bike with an external switch.

Keep your throttle cables in good order and you don't need a kill switch.
 
How often has anyone ever used their kill switch to stop the motor from running?

My guess is that usually you use your key. So while it has been determined that shorting out the ignition will damage your EI, are you really gonna care if the bike is running away and you are trying to shut it down in an emergency?

I don't like having my ignition running through the switch cluster as it seems a good point of failure (as noted above). I also am not sure I want a relay in the circuit as that too is a potential point of failure. So I am seriously thinking about using one of my stock switches (top right is normally open for a starter) to short out my ignition in the event that I really need to shut it down. I suppose if I fry my Tri Spark in the process I will be glad I didn't blow up my engine instead.

This idea will most likely go in the same direction as whether or not you want a valve in your oil line. Some will say that you might accidently push the button and damage the ignition module. I think it is unlikely that I will sit on my bike and push buttons at random so it is a risk I am seriously considering.

Russ
 
While the factory kill switches aren't the best, I've always been able to keep 'em working with a good cleaning, solder touchup, and/or needlenose plier tweaking.
 
rvich said:
How often has anyone ever used their kill switch to stop the motor from running?

My guess is that usually you use your key. So while it has been determined that shorting out the ignition will damage your EI, are you really gonna care if the bike is running away and you are trying to shut it down in an emergency?

I don't like having my ignition running through the switch cluster as it seems a good point of failure (as noted above). I also am not sure I want a relay in the circuit as that too is a potential point of failure. So I am seriously thinking about using one of my stock switches (top right is normally open for a starter) to short out my ignition in the event that I really need to shut it down. I suppose if I fry my Tri Spark in the process I will be glad I didn't blow up my engine instead.

This idea will most likely go in the same direction as whether or not you want a valve in your oil line. Some will say that you might accidently push the button and damage the ignition module. I think it is unlikely that I will sit on my bike and push buttons at random so it is a risk I am seriously considering.

Russ
Click to expand...

I am going to go one step further with this...

In the diagrams above, if you provided a normally open switch that earthed the battery between the fuse and the ignition (master) switch, I bet you would blow the fuse so fast that you wouldn't have to worry about what else you might be melting. Fuses are readily available and most carry a spare or two anyway. I can see this providing a benefit that the stock switch doesn't...the bike wouldn't try to compression start if you let go of the switch.
 
In past Peel I wire key to kill to a relay switch terminals.
This allows even weak connection thru kill bottom to be
enough to keep relay supplying ignition.

I use Kill button fairly often on a number of two wheelers,
Mainly to stop in gear on slopes while holding brake and bars
so won't roll off stand when I get off. Most often that is
on the rut-slope at mail box. Takes both feet down
and both hands on bars to resist the fork twist with some
ease.

Some times I've and injured hand or shoulder and can
hold bars well enough one handed and reach key too.

Some times bike on top and can't reach key.

Some times, I Just hold WOT and tap kill same time
as up shitf w/o clutch. But Norton button not
sized or placed well for handy function this way.
My P!! dragster had big chrome mushroom head
kill button on LH, hard to miss in static of adrenalin rush.

hobot
 
maylar said:
The internal parts are not available as spares and I refuse to uglify my bike with an external switch.
Click to expand...

You apparently can get new buttons, springs and blades. The "board" should just need a good cleaning. That being said I've yet to hear of anyone successfully transplanting the Sparx internals to the Lucas housing.

maylar said:
Keep your throttle cables in good order and you don't need a kill switch.
Click to expand...

With that logic you don't need a helmet cuz if you're a good rider you'll never crash. Cables can bind, slides can bind, it's insurance.
 

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As stated in an other thread, MOST electronic ignitions only need the trigger circuit grounded to kill the engine.
 
No matter, the instructions on the Sparx kit note that you can either "open" the hot wire circuit using a normally closed button, or ground the trigger circuit (either wire) using a normally open button.

Boyer will respond with the same scheme. not sure about the others, you'd need to check.
 
grandpaul said:
No matter, the instructions on the Sparx kit note that you can either "open" the hot wire circuit using a normally closed button, or ground the trigger circuit (either wire) using a normally open button.

Boyer will respond with the same scheme. not sure about the others, you'd need to check.
Click to expand...

So on the Boyer the trigger wires are the b/w and b/y (points wires)?

ps. I'll try to keep this to this thread.
 
grandpaul said:
As stated in an other thread, MOST electronic ignitions only need the trigger circuit grounded to kill the engine.
Click to expand...

I read your comment in the other thread and got out my Tri Spark literature (looking for the fine print). It comments that the unit has an overload feature that shuts it down in the event that there is not 3-ohms of resistance at the coils. So if you grounded this, the stator wouldn't "see" enough resistance and the overload should shut it down. But I was also told specifically by CNW (I asked) not to intentionally ground out the unit. If for no other reason I believe it may violate the warranty.

I had considered salvaging the balast resistor and using it in the grounding circuit. This would be less resistance than the coils and still offer the path of least resistance. It would also offer enough resistance that I wouldn't try to melt my wiring harness. Or so my thinking is (was). I couldn't get a stamp of approval from CNW on the idea so I didn't go there. I would be interested if the more knowledable electricity gurus have input as to whether this is valid. (There is a question in my mind that the stator might then try to fire both circuits and end up with too much amperage flowing thru it so maybe better to go straight to ground. What's the rule on resistance in parallel?)
 
[quote="rvichI couldn't get a stamp of approval from CNW on the idea so I didn't go there. I would be interested if the more knowledable electricity gurus have input as to whether this is valid. (There is a question in my mind that the stator might then try to fire both circuits and end up with too much amperage flowing thru it so maybe better to go straight to ground. What's the rule on resistance in parallel?)[/quote]

Just answered my own question...sorry to let the brain run on caffiene so early in the day. The balast resistor is still too high a value. But a good rugged resistor of say 0.5 ohm would do the trick as the total circuit would easily drop below the 3 ohm value. This of course is a Tri Spark characteristic and other IE would be a bit different.

Russ
 
I'd be leary of any way to kill spark on electronic ign. except
by cutting the power to it. Also less connections and
wires to deal with in chasing faults.

hobot
 
Like I said, Sparx and Boyer are perfectly okay with direct grounding of the trigger circuit to kill the engine, and/or simply cutting power to the box.

Logic dicatates that ALL EI systems can use the normally closed button in the power circuit, but ALL OTHERS (besides Sparx and Boyer) must adhere to thier specific instruction as to method of implementing a normally open button system.
 
Kill Switch


Apparently if you ground the negative side of the coil (THIS IS FOR NEGATIVE GROUND ONLY!!!!) it will kill the ignition. You need a kill switch that is open normally and closes when pushed.

Unfortunately the stock kill switch does not work like this.
 
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