K&N air filters for 35mm Keihin FCRS?

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Anyone know what K&N filters would fit these? The originals on mine need replacing - they are oval-shaped and an incredibly tight fit. Shoehorned them off and on once too often and did physical damage.

I'd like to replace with somewhat smaller, and ideally round-shaped filters. I just got them back on; covered with grease and sweat and realized I'd forgot to note model number or to measure the carb spigots they clamp onto. Don't have the heart to do it again, at least not soon.

I did reach out to Matt Rambow at CNW and he may be able to help, but hoping others may be able to chime in.

Tx - B
 
Anyone know what K&N filters would fit these? The originals on mine need replacing - they are oval-shaped and an incredibly tight fit. Shoehorned them off and on once too often and did physical damage.

I'd like to replace with somewhat smaller, and ideally round-shaped filters. I just got them back on; covered with grease and sweat and realized I'd forgot to note model number or to measure the carb spigots they clamp onto. Don't have the heart to do it again, at least not soon.

I did reach out to Matt Rambow at CNW and he may be able to help, but hoping others may be able to chime in.

Tx - B
RC-1820

 
Anyone know what K&N filters would fit these? The originals on mine need replacing - they are oval-shaped and an incredibly tight fit. Shoehorned them off and on once too often and did physical damage.

I'd like to replace with somewhat smaller, and ideally round-shaped filters. I just got them back on; covered with grease and sweat and realized I'd forgot to note model number or to measure the carb spigots they clamp onto. Don't have the heart to do it again, at least not soon.

I did reach out to Matt Rambow at CNW and he may be able to help, but hoping others may be able to chime in.

Tx - B
At a cleaning interval of 5 yrs or 75k miles at least you’ll not have to remove them again anytime soon and I’m grateful that Matt cleaned mine before shipping cNw #101 if they are that fiddly
 
At a cleaning interval of 5 yrs or 75k miles at least you’ll not have to remove them again anytime soon and I’m grateful that Matt cleaned mine before shipping cNw #101 if they are that fiddly
Call me distrustful but I definitely would not leave mine that long.
They are the lifeblood of your engine's airway.
I wash and re-oil mine every year - not a big deal.
I also keep a spare pair on the shelf.
Cheers
 
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At a cleaning interval of 5 yrs or 75k miles at least you’ll not have to remove them again anytime soon and I’m grateful that Matt cleaned mine before shipping cNw #101 if they are that fiddly
It's not cleaning that's the issue (although I do like to clean and re-oil more frequently than that). I've mangled mine in the process of removal/reinstallation to deal with the carbs themselves, most recently to install a set of Jim Schmidt's 32mm -> 30mm intake port sleeves (the installation itself was easy; getting to the ports was a PITA thanks to the air filters).
 
BrianK, any chance of some pics of your set up?
I’m struggling to understand your space issue (I’ve been using these carbs for 10 years now)…
 
Thanks. That looks like the ones I have on there - too big for available space. But I see the flange measurement is 2", which is helpful. Tx - B
I bought shorter front rubber adapters with narrower SS clamps - gave all the room I needed.
Before the tops of the carbs also rubbed on the triangular plate frame brace - no issues now.
Cheers
 
Got it!!
I bought from this place - https://mikunioz.com/?v=13b249c5dfa9
Not cheap but works a treat!
Screen Shot 2024-04-29 at 9.28.01 am.png

 
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Brian
Here is a photo of them fitted - gives just under 20mm clearance from the back of the filters to the battery tray plate.
No problems (now) in removal and fitting filters!
Cheers
Hi Rob,
do you have an approx length for the alternative rubbers, i measure about 37mm on my current ones.
thanks
 
K&N air filters for 35mm Keihin FCRS?

Nicely done Rob. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. What kind of clamp/fastener is that?
2. What its that bracket/brace for?
3. Is that battery hold down welded to the frame?

Thanks, Mike
 
Please forgive if this has been addressed elsewhere AND for the exorbitant length. It seems important to me - BUT - in threads about K&N filters that I've seen so far, one rather important specific detail has not been adequately addressed. Namely, exactly how (and how much) these filters need to be cleaned and reoiled? I know that most come pre-oiled from K&N these days, but past experience has been that when serviced and re-oiled it is overdone...regularly. Too oily is likely as bad or worse than no oil...so what technique ensures correct oiling?

Then there's this—open filters of any kind are generally considered a bad thing on virtually all modern motorcycles—and not just for EPA noise. Ham cans pull air in sideways, in much the same way, so it's not a huge improvement per see. (There's some indication that using improper air filtration on the highly prized FCRs cuts their effectiveness considerably.)

That leaves airboxes (ala MkII-MkIII) as the best "technology" for cleanliness and performance...theoretically at least. My cursory look at the factory air box, and belief that they are a better idea, runs counter to Commando "popular wisdom". Most folks pull them off in favor of the notion they've improved performance by doing so. Does anyone have evidence/proof one way or the other? IF - the factory MkII-III airbox is restrictive, can it be modded to outflow open filters/ham cans? If not, can the MKII-III boxes be fitted to earlier Commandos? Pros? Cons?

Kevin Cameron's "take":
March 11993 Kevin Cameron
Airbox exoneration

TDC

Kevin Cameron

YEARS AGO, IT WAS CONSIDERED ESSENTIAL in any performance modification to rip off the airbox, filter(s) and intake-silencing gear, and then run either the bare carburetors or carbs adorned with “sock-type” individual filters.

There was some basis for this prejudice, in that certain models were truly strangled by their airbox systems. Yamaha’s famous RD two-stroke Twins were shining examples of what could be achieved by tossing away those plastic doghouses and rejetting to correct the mixture for all the extra air the engine was going to get.

In time, airbox removal not only achieved knee-jerk status, but indeed, open carbs came to be regarded as a manly accessory, just as well-rounded calves were viewed in the 18th century (back then, fellows with spindly shanks took to stuffing their socks to get the right effect). The definitive look in the 1980s was set by the Yoshimura GSX-R750 Superbikes, whose open Mikunis were shrouded only by sheets of insulating material, intended to keep some of the hot air out of the intakes.

Then came revelation. The production-based supersport roadracing classes arrived, and with them confusion. At first, everyone wanted to toss his airbox away in the established manner, but sophisticated competitors noticed that some horsepower went with them. In its place appeared disagreeable holes in the power curve. At first, people tried all sorts of deflectors, reasoning that air wasn’t getting to the right places. Years ago, as I had droned down the old Vineland, New Jersey, straightaway on my open-carb Honda Superhawk, I noticed that the engine revved up more if I held my knees out from the sides of the machine like a set of airscoops. But scoops and deflectors didn’t restore the missing supersports power. During that season of supersport racing when airbox removal was legal, the faster bikes all had boxes. Hmmm. Interesting.

More history. Twenty-five years ago, intake and exhaust tuning was regarded with suspicion by the official auto industry-something for hot-rodders and backyard experimenters, perhaps, but hardly a suitable subject for real engineers. Chrysler dabbled with

it (remember the giant CrossRam manifold, so big that it obscured the entire engine?) and textbooks of the period mentioned it-barely. Mercedes-Benz had taken it very seriously indeed, preparing an actively controlled, variable-length intake system for its 300 SLR racing engine back in the 1950s. But tuned-length intakes on the street? Certainly not.

Times changed when car engines had to shrink to meet emissions and fuel-economy standards. Engineered as their V-Eight forebears had been, the new four-cylinder breed would have made shrunken power, as well. To restore some of this performance loss, engineers brought their polished shoes down off their desks and began to look for ways to make small engines more fun to drive. By golly, this intake-tuning business might be just the ticket. Free horsepower!

The effect operated only across a limited range of rpm, but by choosing the right intake length, the effect (as much as a 20-percent local gain) could be put where it was most needed-for example, to fill in a hole left by a corked-up exhaust system, or as a vitamin for pallid peak power. Bike tuners, of course, had used intake length tuning routinely for years.

Now came synthesis. The sound of a tuned intake operating at its resonant frequency and full throttle is powerful-something like a big bass loudspeaker roaring away at a low, single frequency. It could give you a headache as you drone along in your tinny little car. It also exceeds noise standards set by the Federal and other governments. The noise had to go. Therefore, airbox research expanded.

A box with a hole in it, is itself a resonator (look under “Helmholtz resonator” in any acoustics book). The familiar example is to blow across the mouth of a bottle. Another example is a guitar. The vibrating mass is the quantity of air in and near the hole, and the “spring” against which it vibrates is the volume compressibility of the air inside the box. As acoustic engineers worked with various airbox combinations, trying to kill the noise, engine people were looking at the resulting power curves. What are all these new bumps? Why, isn’t this interesting? More free horsepower is coming from somewhere. Where?

What was happening was that now, added to the effect of intake-length tuning was a second effect: airbox resonant frequency tuning. As the volume of the airbox, and the length and diameter of its intake stub were varied, this resonance effect could be moved up or down the engine’s rpm scale. This was a delightful new tool for powerband shaping, giving the engineers a fresh way to fill in annoying powerband potholes that come from getting big power out of small engines. The more an engine depends upon exhaust-pipe tuning and valve overlap for its upper-end power, the more its midrange and bottom power will suffer from flat spots.

During the past five to eight years, therefore, the airbox has become an integral part of almost every street motorcycle’s powerband. It has evolved from being at first just a place for the filter and a means of silencing intake roar, into a source of modest but useful free horsepower, and of a smoother overall powerband.

At present, a reverse flow of intake technology is moving from street motorcycles into racing. Witness the giant, two-armed carbon-fiber airbox on the current NSR500 Honda. Soon, all important aspects of intake design-tuned length, cold air, ram effect, and airbox resonance-will be combined on race machines, as they have been for some time on the best street designs.
 
More from Kevin Cameron:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any hi-fi enthusiast knows that woofer enclosures work best when the resonant frequency of the enclosure is nicely centered on the speaker's response range. The enclosure usually consists of a sealed volume with the speaker installed in one of its walls, and an opening, called a reflex port, cut into the enclosure. A resonant system consists of a mass, which vibrates back and forth against the restraint of something flexible, like a spring, with an excitatory force to drive it. In the case of the speaker enclosure, the mass is the air in and within one diameter's distance of the reflex port. The spring is the compressible air inside the enclosure. The system is set into vibration by the amplifier, driving the speaker cone back and forth as a piston.

In the case of an engine's intake airbox, the mass is the air in the airbox inlet pipe(s). The "spring" is the compressibility of the air in the box. The excitatory force - a very powerful one - is the endless sequence of strong engine intake suction pulses from the carburetors. The airbox must not have any significant leaks, as the throttled, back-and-forth airflow through them acts like a hand on a vibrating bell (anyone who's ever tried to play low notes on a valved wind instrument knows what a killer leakage is). The airbox inlet pipe is usually made with a smooth bellmouth on either end to reduce flow losses. Carburetors or throttle bodies must likewise seal positively to the box. When a system like this gets to humming, the pressure inside it vibrates rapidly plus and minus 10-15% of atmospheric pressure. In fact, the humming is so powerful that in many cases a sub-resonator is placed near the atmosphere end of the inlet, to prevent radiation of this powerful honking sound to the outside. EPA objectors are always waiting there with calibrated sound meters and spectrum analyzers at the ready.

How can you adjust the resonant frequency of your airbox if you raise your engine's peak-torque rpm with pipes or porting? One way is to invest $30,000 or so in professional wave dynamics software like Ricardo "Wave", running on a $10,000 Sun workstation. Probably on the right back street in Hong Kong you can pick up a pirate copy for $25, but which street is it?

The airbox inlet tubes, or "horns", are specifically designed to provide a resonance that can increase the total airflow by up to 10-15%. Removing these can cause the engine to lose power and increase the intake noise.

We're so used to the idea that problems have to be solved with silicon logic that we forget about steel and aluminum solutions. "Wave" is great if you have a tricky fuel mixture glitch with #7 cylinder in your Ford NASCAR engine. But with a simple formula that tells us which variables push the airbox frequency which way, and by approximately how much, we can devise dyno experiments that will get us the answers we need - without those expensive Cathay-Pacific coach tickets.

Here is the formula.
(Airbox Frequency), squared, is proportional to inlet pipe area/(airbox volume X inlet length)

This is useful because it shows us that if we want to raise airbox resonant frequency, we must increase inlet pipe area or decrease airbox volume or inlet pipe length.

AN EXAMPLE

If our present engine is a twin, giving peak torque at 8200 rpm, that is 8200/60 = 137 revolutions per second, or 137 X 2 = 273 suction pulses per second. Unless there is some special problem, the airbox will be designed to resonate near that frequency.

If we now want to raise peak torque revs by 10%, to 9020 rpm, we must also raise airbox frequency by a similar amount. If we raise airbox frequency by 10%, its square will increase by 1.1 X 1.1 = 1.21 times, or 21%. That means that whatever is on the right-hand side of the equation must also increase by a factor of 1.21. Take your pick.

You can:
(a) increase inlet pipe area 21% (that is, increase its diameter by 10%) or,
(b) decrease airbox volume by 21% or,
© decrease inlet pipe length by 21%

Because these systems generally work better the bigger you make the airbox, we won't try (b). Since we are raising revs and power, increasing inlet area looks pretty good, so we could choose option (a), increasing inlet pipe area. However, option (c) would appear to be the easiest. Before we go to the dyno, we'll make up a few airbox inlet pipes to give us some test choices. Then we can run through our tests quickly and zero in on the sweet spot. Each end of the box inlet pipe should have a smooth bellmouth.

Likewise, go carefully before removing internal airbox "furniture". Assume nothing, but test with each change to understand its effect. Airbox designs are sophisticated now, so their internal features often have functions.

Any resonant system always has anti-resonances. In the case of an airbox, that is an rpm at which the engine breathes from the box when pressure is at the low part of its cycle. What if there's an anti-resonance right where you want your clutch to engage? Of course you could imagine a system with a variable-length inlet pipe to deal with this, but the easy way is just to kill the anti-resonance by opening a big hole in the airbox. Systems of this type are in use on certain sports motorcycles. When the engine runs near the rpm of the anti-resonance, the engine control computer tells a little motor to open the airbox port. When it revs up, the motor closes the port.

I'm aware of the fact that this is like building a clock for someone who just asked what time it is, but the tech involved is pretty easy to understand. It also explains why radical high RPM motors don't have to deal with it. I hope it was worth the read, and again, the author is Kevin Cameron.
 
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Nicely done Rob. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. What kind of clamp/fastener is that?
2. What its that bracket/brace for?
3. Is that battery hold down welded to the frame?

Thanks, Mike
Sorry Mike for the tardy response - meant to, then forgot.
1. the clamp is simply a small electrical/zippy tie - yellow to match. The hose is Tygon, which seems to clamp well this way.
2. the bracket came with the second hand tank and side covers I bought. Clamps to the frame at the bottom and has a flat plate with a hole/Dzu spring for the side cover at the top. Much better than the standard bolting of the interstate cover which requires tank removal to get the side cover off.
3. No - optical illusion. The loop for the battery clamp is on the battery tray.
Cheers - and, again, sorry for the delay.
 
For others struggling with this FCR/Commando fit issue, you can cut 1 1/2" I.D. fuel tank fuel filler hose (either automotive or aeronautical) to make the connection between the intake manifold and carburetors any length you want. It won't come loose if clamped tight. You can also cut about 3/32" off the FCR air filter adapters to allow the filters to move closer to the carburetors. Basically, you remove the lip on the adapter. The filters will not be as secure as they are with the lip, so the air filter clamps should be checked for tightness once in a while. I've done 3K+- miles with the 35mm FCRs setup that way on a pre-Commando 750. I also had FCR fit issues in the frame. Only difference in my case was I was trying to make my intake tract between the head and carburetors as long as possible and still be able to get the filters on and off.
 
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