I'm looking for a little help.

I'm looking for a little help.

I picked up my dad's 73 Commando some months back. He purchased it brand new off the show room floor and now it's mine. I pretty much grew up on the back of this bike.

I was finally able to get around to starting it today. It took a bit as I'm sure most of you know how that goes. Anyway once started it smoked and sputtered never really running 100%. Then it started blowing oil out of the breather tube and onto a clean piece of cardboard. I have included pictures from the aftermath of it all.














With my limited knowledge I'm thinking it needs a top end rebuild?

Any better ideas to what I'm looking at?

This is just a picture of the treatment my dad did to the head, one of my favorite things about his Norton.



Thanks in advance,

Ken

Thats NOT clean oil .

Assumeing you havnt drained the system / s and cleaned the oil tank , let alone flushed . Its understandable its acting like a fart in a storm .

The differance between a cheap oil ( excessive consumption & erratic running ) & a quality oil , where within 10 miles it smooths out , stops throwing oil
and consumtion goes to ZERO ( except thrashing it , on a twisty road , with a shallow sup where its 100 miles to the litre , in a 2 litre ohc , :lol: 8) .

o.k. The Oils the BLOOD , bad blood & you contaminate & scour out the working surfaces , bearing surfaces . $ $ $ $ $ $ $ and more $ . :x

THEREFORE , Drain ALL the OIL , engine , gearbox , forks . Remove the oil tank and be very thorough cleaning / inspecting .
Remove & clean / inspect the OIL LINES , filter gauze etc .

Seeing its taken this long , Id fill the gearbox ( FULL ) with kero for a few days , drain & repeat . - To flush .

Same with the Forks , working them ( pushing up & down ) between flushings UNTILL no Debri / Contamination is observed in the residue .

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Usually you drain into white plastic (say Icecream , 2l & 4l ) Containers , let settle a few hours ( or days ) pour of bar say 1/4 pint ,
then play the mad scientist inspecting / anyliseing the residue . Yr looking for Metalic Particals , grit , contaminants , rust & water .

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If it was layed up without fresh lubricants , the Acids & contaminants in the thing can be corrosive etc etc .

thats why FLUSHING ( running with new oil to catch all the gook , , cautiously , like a first start up .
Getting entusiastic , you do it briefly with say 30/40 oil to flush CLEAN oil into mateing surfaces . Then DRAIN ALL apetures , collect the muck , let settle & inspect .
Fit Quality Oil , run for say 50 miles CAUTIOUSLY , then another full service , and its RECOMISSIONED .

This is a lot less expensive than overhauling every component in the contraption .

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Drove a layed up 1500 Ford 100 miles on a sunny day . The Oil & filter had been done in the engine , the Box & Diff were ' singing ' by 80 miles .
Was of no consequence as they were being replaced . But in hindsight , as a nice standard car , wouldve been worth preserveing . Hence 10 year old oil is ' poo poo ' to quote Hobot . Id thought it was a Green car , Next morning appeared to be Blue . washed it & it was White . been parked at the shadey side of a house in a damp suberb for over four years .

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Alternately you could add sand and metal filings , as it is , and finish it off completely . DONT run it UNTILL it has FRESH OIL . and the judiciously .

Should NOT be stored with oil over 1000 miles on it . Antique Maseratis and the like , layed up , they FILL the Cavities with oil , so theres NO atmosphere to contain moisture to corrode .

Now you Know . :wink:

Nice looking cycle Ken. And welcome to this group, lots of helpful folks and advice here.
Sometimes you may need to sift through it to figure out which bit you actually need, and which is spare advice.
We see you already met some of it !!

Don't do anything too hasty.
A full carb strip and clean is probably the first order of the day.
That and new spark plugs could well be all thats needed.

What ignition system is it using ?
If its points they may need cleaning and setting, if its been converted to electronic may need a charged battery to give its best.

Can you see where the oil came from ?
Did you check the oil level in the oil tank AND in the sump before you started it.
Lots of threads here about the oil draining down into the sump on standing - lots of dry sump bikes do this.
You got clean oil in it already ?

Likely just over filled seeing tank low with unknown tank full in the sump.
Drain sump note quanity in pan and what left in tank and re-start for a type of hillbilly oil change. Water or crude in carbs, loose electrics, old plugs can bother running. Look around tugging jiggling after dark. Check brake fluid each gas up till sure it ain't blowing away unknown. Its a pretty nice example and wish my father had such foolish interests to pass on.

I'm not sure where the oil came from on the primary side.

I'll drain and add new oil. What is a good quality oil?

I used to know back in the day but since our newer cars run synthetic I've lost touch with older style oils.

Before I rebuild carbs and things I really just want to make sure it doesn't blow oil out the breather.

It has its original style points it hasn't been converted. Before I picked up the bike my dad did have some work done by some guy in Alabama close to him. So I made the huge assumption that it ran. I do have the shop manual that he purchased so I'll look through that and see what I find.

What is a good quality oil?

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go pick up three quarts of 20-50 dyno, not synthetic, live Valvoline or Castro GTX, holds exactly 3 quarts

take ALL of Matt Spenser's advice, reread his post, don't try to start it again at this point until all oil including gearbox, primary, and motor is drained and refilled

get your hands on a Clymer or Haynes workshop manual, you are going to need it to get educated

The carbs may not require a rebuild.
They may need all the gunk etc cleaned out of them for it to run right however.
It is REALLY common for amals left sitting for any length of time to need this.
All carbs really.

Until you have all clean oils in it, with right quantities you won't know if the oiling system is still good.
And the carbs will need cleaning whether the engine is rebuilt or not...

P.S. It is normal for it to run a bit rough from cold, especially if you don't have the choke on.
Should smooth out once warm - if everything is clean and set right.
Make sure all the throttle and choke cables are free to operate, don't want any stuck cables messing things up.

aslink,
How old is the gas in the fuel tank? Put fresh fuel in and see how it runs. Drain the old gas out first. Then fill up with fresh. Looking at the tires they look like Avon Super Venoms AM18. These are probably about 7-8 years old. Avon doesn’t make them anymore and have superceded this tire with the Roadrider AM26. Check for cracks on these tires. Oil spills are probably from too much oil in the system. The oil tank dipstick has two graduation marks and you should keep oil level in between. However Norton has a peculiar fault called wet sumping. This is were the oil in the tank works on gravity and slowly migrates into the bottom of the engine case. This happens when the bike is in storage or has not been ridden for a while. This can happen in Weeks, months, Years. Did you check the oil and found the dipstick not showing any oil? By adding oil you may have caused too much oil in the system if you are unaware of wet sumping , which caused your problems on the floor when the engine ran and started pumping oil back to the now over full tank. I am assuming that you got this bike from you Dad and you are firing it up for the first time in a long time?
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

aslink said:

I'm not sure where the oil came from on the primary side.

I'll drain and add new oil. What is a good quality oil?

I used to know back in the day but since our newer cars run synthetic I've lost touch with older style oils.

Before I rebuild carbs and things I really just want to make sure it doesn't blow oil out the breather.

It has its original style points it hasn't been converted. Before I picked up the bike my dad did have some work done by some guy in Alabama close to him. So I made the huge assumption that it ran. I do have the shop manual that he purchased so I'll look through that and see what I find.

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Find and oil that has zinc additives in it . Do not use engine oil for todays cars that are running catalytic converters. Kendall GT1 straight weight 50 or Kendall gt-1 20-50 Liquid Titanium are good choices for Dino Oil.
Synthetic Oil…Amsoil sells oil 20-50 with zinc. Others might pipe up but IMO you need zinc to keep your cam and lifters happy.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Hi aslink, welcome. Tell us more about yourself... Mechanical skillset? Do repairs/maint. on modern bikes? Cars? Oil changes? Brakes? Valve adjustment? Etc.? It'll help us know where to begin.

I'm going thru the same process with my 1974 Commando I acquired about 3 weeks ago...Disassembled forks and cleaned, removed oil tank and got it squeaky clean inside, drained all fluids and soaked all areas with kerosene, rebuilt front brake, checked all wiring, misc. cleaning...Hoping to put new fluids in today and check for spark....

The infamous over fill spill on floor d/t wet sump expels the excess out the oil tank vent hose - not - the primary case side. Its possible one of the primary case bolts on engine has backed out or the crank seal ain't sealing so engine oil over fills primary to leak out on that side. Tranny oil can weep into clutch basket and clog plates but not likely gearbox oil weep enough to over fill primary w/o over filling gear box a few times first. Its ok to remove primary cover and run dry chain long enough to observe oil source, but may only take a try while parked or a 100 yrd roll off. Its possible for barrel base or rear crank case seam to trickle off back of 1' case or cradle.

Thank you everybody for such a great response to my post. Lots of great info and I'll be referring back to it while I'm working getting this back on the road.

As requested my history.

As a kid I grew up going to the shop where Bob Raber was wrenching off of Almaden in San Jose, can't remember the name of that first shop now. I've loosely followed Bob's career and checked in on him from time to time. I just found out he has his own shop now with his name on and everything, that so awesome. For those that know Bob he's a great guy. He always seemed to remember me back when I lived in CA. I'll test that theory later today if I can reach him on the phone.

Anyway, my dad purchased this Norton when I was 8 or 9. So I grew up riding on the back of it. After many years of riding on the back my mom got this idea she would like to ride so she purchased a 69 Triumph 650 Bonneville. She tore it completely apart and I helped. She lost interest so I put it back together with dads help. The guy she purchased it from used it off road and choose to run the pipes under the frame. I never understood why seeing how the bike was so low to start with. We pretty much restored it. Painted the tank and front fender black. Freshened up the motor with a cylinder hone, rebuilt the Amal carbs, timed the carbs and cables. Put stock pipes back on it.

After it was up and running, mom gave the bike to me. So next was to learn how to ride it. Got my license and that was my wheels in high school. My first big ride was a poker run that brought us back home via highway 1. I remember the wind was so strong coming off the ocean riding back we had to tilt the bike into the wind a lot in order to keep going straight. That was fine up until we would get to where the road was carved through a hill and we lost that wind and would have to throw it back up right and then back over once we were back in the wind. That was my first serious experience riding and I loved it. I had no issues what so ever during that poker run, it was awesome.

While I had that bike I would wrench on it all the time keeping it up and running. Constantly perfecting my skills with trying to keep the oil in the bike. Always on the search for a better sealant. I replaced the clutch plates with Barnetts and was amazed at the power I was loosing and didn't even know it. Put in a 1" spacer into the Ceriani forks to stiffen them a bit more. Dialed in the weight of the lube in the fork to help it perform even better.

I remember little things like riding two up with my girlfriend at the time wife now. Her pegs would drag first so she learned to pick up her foot so it wouldn't drag too. I learned the skill of starting the bike in traffic two up on those rare occasions I would stall it. She would stay seated and lift her peg out of the way and I'd give it a quick kick and we'd be off.

I learned to shift audibly via sitting on the back of the Norton. There was a couple of times I remember riding along side my dad coming home and we'd run'em a bit. We'd both get on it and I swear it sounded just like one motor shifting and that little 650 would run right along side the 850 pretty well. I have super fond memories of those bikes and that time. So I was really excited to get the Norton after all these years.

I never had much problem wrenching on the bike in fact it came easy. Wrenching on cars though was always an issue. All those cylinders and hoses and extra wheels the whole thing seemed more trouble than it was worth. So I stuck to bikes.

Then one day we (the girlfriend and I) rode to Santa Cruz and parked it on the street across from the bus stop by the Coconut Grove. Walked down the boardwalk to grab a candied apple and walked back to continue riding and the bike was stolen. Couldn't believe it less than twenty minuted in broad daylight in front of a bus stop with people there and these guys loaded into a pickup truck. I was heart broken. The bike was never recovered.

I did try finding another Triumph to rebuild but never seemed to locate one I could afford. I tried to restore a BSA once but that was before I could really afford it and I lost interest in it as well.

After that I moved onto Japanese Sportbikes and BMW's. I've since sold those off too. Now I have dad's Norton and I'm getting pretty excited about getting it back up and running. I've always loved the sound of the Norton with Dunstall's on it. When I used to ride it I made sure my route included every under pass. I would time it so I was just about ready to shift into the next gear and roll off the throttle just as I entered the under pass. The sound was amazing. I've also been known to chase down Pantera's just to listen to them accelerate and shift.

The bike came with the Norton Shop Manual and I still have my whitworth wrenches and some other misc. British bike tools.

So it looks like I'll be tracking down some quality oils and replacing the fuel.

I remember using 76 super back in the day because it had lead in it. At least that's what I was told. The good old days when you could fill the tank with a buck and get change back. So what's everybody gassing up their older British bikes with now a days?

Great! We'll skip the 101 class stuff. Pump premium works OK, some of us run AVGAS, VP, SUNOCO Racing gas. You think the bike is still at standard compression? Or did Dad "pepper it up" a bit?

Oh my aslink your tales send me soaring just reaading what I used to miss out on. There's a good tunnel in freeway like road that my bud and me go into and melt with the throbbings, otherwise i tend to get too close to bluff or bridge sides for half the effect. Synchronized shifting with your father is one hell of a good way to bond and communicate unity that I missed out on.

Compression is stock. He thought the bike had enough stock and wanted the reliability.

I'm probably going to just go with premium gas. I was curious if there was an additive some were running.

at the risk of starting a firestorm debate, my first order of operation would include fresh oil. Second would be the installation of a tri-spark electronic ignition.

benz said:

at the risk of starting a firestorm debate, my first order of operation would include fresh oil. Second would be the installation of a tri-spark electronic ignition.

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I don't think anyone would challenge the wisdom of fresh oil.
The coil partially shown looks automotive. Just re-read, saw the points post, clean? Set? As Torontonian said below, verify, service AAU.

Nice family bike ! Since we agree on the changing of all oils then consider grease areas of that stock points setup. Every auto advance unit needs greasing periodically or it goes dry and hangs up causing bad advance like the poor running symptoms described. But consider that Tri Spark advice before dicking about with the complexitys of points. Money well spent. Enjoy ,Peter.

Once you get the carbs cleaned, fluids changed out and the bike running well, you might want to pull the gearbox cover and replace the O-ring sealing the kickstart lever with a true oil seal. One of your photos suggests that you have a substantial leak around the kickstart lever. This is a very common Norton problem (or presumably any bike with the AMC gearbox) and one I also need to deal with on my Dominator!! Once you are back on the road, we can give you a list of other mods that you can address at your leisure (more or less) to make the bike a lot more reliable and fun to ride. As suggested by someone else on the forum, an electronic ignition is one of these "essential" mods IMO. Tri-Spark was mentioned but that is not your only choice for a Commando. If you have problems tuning the carbs that are on the bike and getting them synchronized with a decent idle (I did when I first bought my Commando), another popular mod is to sleeve the Amals. Some folks replace the Amals with a single Mikuni or other Japanese carb or with other types of dual carbs. New Amals are also available. Pros and cons to each approach and some people value the stock appearance of Amals more than others. More later. Welcome to the fold!

Tobin