I love billet
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[/quote]john robert bould said:
My Vincent #38, 38th built after WW2 has it's factory number stamped muffs. It has done somewhere over three hundred thousand miles for seven owners, hauled ass all over the UK, Malta, Australia , NZ, Canada and the US.
The muffs have had new liners at least once as the overbore was at Max. Maybe it is getting close to giving trouble, but it still pulled like a freight train on the mountain passes topped last summer.
So while Maughans might make an improved version that would benefit racers, the as issued item has been very, very good!
Glen
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Fast Eddie said:
Most the Dunstall stuff wouldn't even be suitable for a playground it's such utter crap.
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worntorn said:
My Vincent #38, 38th built after WW2 has it's factory number stamped muffs. It has done somewhere over three hundred thousand miles for seven owners, hauled ass all over the UK, Malta, Australia , NZ, Canada and the US.
The muffs have had new liners at least once as the overbore was at Max. Maybe it is getting close to giving trouble, but it still pulled like a freight train on the mountain passes topped last summer.
So while Maughans might make an improved version that would benefit racers, the as issued item has been very, very good!
Glen[/quote]
My '51 Vincent was owned by Bruce Main-Smith in the late 50's, who built it into a kind of dustbin faired super tourer (called "The Pig"). In 1961 it had done 132,000 miles, I have no idea what the cumulative total is today. It too has had new liners (by Maughans) but is also still on its original muffs. So I really couldn't agree with them being seen as a flawed design.
BTW, it came to me from a chap in Wales, kinda cool for it to be back in Oxford, still with its Oxford issued reg number from when it was sold by Kings of Oxford (Mike Hailwoods Dads business) back in '51!
Im sure Jim knows, but just throwing out a bit more slightly relevant information on the subject.... There are a couple of alternatives to electroplated bores that havent been mentioned, wire arc spray / plasma spray coatings. Some time ago I came across a coating that while it wasnt the latest high tec thing it worked almost as well, it was a twin wire arc sparay coating that used one 95mxc hard coat wire and one 75b bond coat wire. When used with hard stainless rings its wear characteristics were much better than cast iron. These types of coatings can be built much thicker than the electroplated ones without flaking/delamination problems caused by the relatively soft substrate.
concours said:
Im not going to get into an argument but you are wrong (unless you took that to mean chromium which is probably true, I was thinking nikasil type materials), they are usually propriety processes so not called nikasil but are similar materials applied in a similar process.
worntorn said:
Isn't itwen the two dissimilar metals "work" against each other or rub on each other, in this case, it seems to me they are referring to the different expansion rates, so when the aluminum warms up and expands before the liner at that moment there is potential for the liner and the barrel or Muff to slip on each other. that's what I took it to mean in this context.
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fret1
fret/
verb
verb: fret; 3rd person present: frets; past tense: fretted; past participle: fretted; gerund or present participle: fretting
2.
gradually wear away (something) by rubbing or gnawing.
"the bay's black waves fret the seafront"
form (a channel or passage) by rubbing or wearing away.
flow or move in small waves.
"soft clay that fretted between his toes"
Origin
fret/
verb
verb: fret; 3rd person present: frets; past tense: fretted; past participle: fretted; gerund or present participle: fretting
2.
gradually wear away (something) by rubbing or gnawing.
"the bay's black waves fret the seafront"
form (a channel or passage) by rubbing or wearing away.
flow or move in small waves.
"soft clay that fretted between his toes"
Origin
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Ya mean some metal elements tend to rub same or similar metal elements raw - while dis-similar alloys often tend to tolerant each other to slip right past?
Maybe Amal should be informed?
Synonym's for fret imply it ain't a desirable trait or state,..
http://thesaurus.com/browse/fret
Maybe Amal should be informed?
Synonym's for fret imply it ain't a desirable trait or state,..
http://thesaurus.com/browse/fret
cjandme said:
That makes sense when fret and worry are synonyms. To worry something is to work away at it in a destructive way.
I have two new words added to my vocabulary this week, the mechanical usage of fret and jealpy ( refers to happy but jealous 961 admirers such as Dave & myself)
I'm also jealpy over Jim's new engine, but I'm not going to fret over it.
By the time it,s done he will be so full of aluminium he won't remember what the engine was for! :mrgreen:
Glen
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Muffs; Thats the alloy finned jacket the liner is pressed into.
Frett; Thats the wear that happens when two tight surfaces more in relation to one another. Eg a mudguard bolt that becomes loose will Frett away at the holes due to vibration.
In the case of an alloy cylinder and iron liner, the liner /muff will move [creep] due to heat[expansion] this intereaction "micro wear"s the two surfaces, even though the movement is very small !
In the case of a motorcycle cylinder its nothing to get hot and bothered about, excuse the pun..but for the record, Muffs and liners need to be as a purfect fit as possible,otherwise hot spots on the liner wall will ocure,due to the "gap" between the two components..this produces distortion.
Jim will explain more if required.
Thats the beauty of this forum ,it's a learning centre!
Frett; Thats the wear that happens when two tight surfaces more in relation to one another. Eg a mudguard bolt that becomes loose will Frett away at the holes due to vibration.
In the case of an alloy cylinder and iron liner, the liner /muff will move [creep] due to heat[expansion] this intereaction "micro wear"s the two surfaces, even though the movement is very small !
In the case of a motorcycle cylinder its nothing to get hot and bothered about, excuse the pun..but for the record, Muffs and liners need to be as a purfect fit as possible,otherwise hot spots on the liner wall will ocure,due to the "gap" between the two components..this produces distortion.
Jim will explain more if required.
Thats the beauty of this forum ,it's a learning centre!
davamb said:
Fast Eddie
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john robert bould said:
One has to exercise caution when doing an Internet search on the term 'muff' especially if women and children are present at the time...
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I've often wondered about the way Wellworthy barrels were made and also the Japanese two strokes. How difficult is it to cast the muffin around the cast iron interior ? I think a limit to Jim's type of construction is imposed by the distance between the inner edges of the bores. I.e. getting head gasket sealing between the bores. I've also wondered whether it night be better to use a through bolted 8mm thick steel plate at the top with the sleeves coming up into it, and the head bolted to that. Even considered using two Porsche barrels and a plate top and bottom with pushrod tubes..
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Wellworthy Vickers made blocks with the liners cast in for the War effort. the liners are the very best cylinder material. MOD spec is!
After the war the company having no mod orders to keep them happy. turned to the commercial sector.
This process is the result of years of MOD money . which produces a well test product...i know Velocette used the barrels for a number of years..i guess the company folded..as did many british industries have.
After the war the company having no mod orders to keep them happy. turned to the commercial sector.
This process is the result of years of MOD money . which produces a well test product...i know Velocette used the barrels for a number of years..i guess the company folded..as did many british industries have.
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Well I got the programming for the outside profile of the new barrels assembled into something that looked like it would work and ran it gave it a try. I think it now looks like something that belongs on a Norton.
I still have to cut the reliefs for access to the studs and install tubes for the pushrods. I also plan on putting a radius on the edges of the fins. Jim
I still have to cut the reliefs for access to the studs and install tubes for the pushrods. I also plan on putting a radius on the edges of the fins. Jim
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