Hot Nasty Norton Brake

I like the looks of my Grimica set up as I don't realy care about my Norton looking orginal, my bike lost its orginal looks in 1980, but I want to ride for as long as I can and if it means putting better brakes on my bike to do so, having a hot motor you also need the brakes to match the power when you need it, there are so many crazy drivers on the roads these days who pull out on motorcycles even when they see you, as for me I want to stay upright everytime I go riding and I still ride the same way as I did when I was young but now I keep a good look out to whats happening around me and in front of me, sometimes you need a few more eyes.

Life is great for me at the moment and most of it involves riding my bikes.

Ashley

ashman said:

I like the looks of my Grimica set up as I don't realy care about my Norton looking orginal, my bike lost its orginal looks in 1980, but I want to ride for as long as I can and if it means putting better brakes on my bike to do so, having a hot motor you also need the brakes to match the power when you need it, there are so many crazy drivers on the roads these days who pull out on motorcycles even when they see you, as for me I want to stay upright everytime I go riding and I still ride the same way as I did when I was young but now I keep a good look out to whats happening around me and in front of me, sometimes you need a few more eyes.

Life is great for me at the moment and most of it involves riding my bikes.

Ashley

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I want to stay upright everytime I go riding and I still ride the same way as I did when I was young

So Ashley
Just how do you go around corners? :? :?

Match well the power?
Well no difference here I guess if it's acceleration to say 60mph you are interested in rather than higher speed. But even then, she can't go quicker than the gearing allows.
I wouldn't have a MkIII Fastback if I cared much about originality. But some things you like to cling onto because you like the look. In my case I like the shiny calliper. Also it matches the rear brake (which incidentally does virtually nothing, just like all rear brakes). So there seems little more I can improve. Maybe softer brake pads and de chromed rotor. But it isn't a bad brake. Hell of a lot better than my original combat, and second one too for that matter.

Quite frankly Ashley, I don't think I could ride in the city again, let alone live there. I would not enjoy it and it's too bloody dangerous. Down here in the land of the Beautiful People and Gentry, it's so much a different story. Cars pull over to the curb to let you pass, pedestrians jump backwards and the police block side roads as you pass. In my case, a man with a red flag walks ahead blowing a trumpet whilst cameras flash and people cheer. But don't expect that reception. It is for forum VIP's only.

Oops, I'll take that back. You are a VIP. I will advise the authorities of your impending arrival.

But seriously, I know what you mean but in the law of averages, my chances of survival are much higher than yours. Especially if you are trying to stay upright around corners. What trick of gyros do you know?

Any chance of a photo of your Grimica? You might sway me yet.
Others in here would prefer I had no brake at all!

Phil

Phil I think you know what i mean by staying upright, don't come off, my Norton is built for great handling and I don't do much city riding on it, all my riding is in tight corners on some of our great mountian roads we have up our ways as well as high speed straights, I do ride around the suburbs to get to the outer city limits and is only a short ride to get to the mountain ranges from my place, but you will find a lot of hazards on these mountain roads, slow cars, cattle trucks, horse floats and the occastional kangaroo jumping out in front of you and of course those pesky drop bears that seem to jump from nowhere, I'm not trying to sway you about your brakes, I just love the feel of my front brakes, the big 12" floating disc, Grimica M/C and calaper, with big pads and S/S braided brake line
and one or two finger operation.



I don't work my brakes hard and get long life out of them but its good to know if I do need to stop in a hurry I will have no problems at all.

Ashley

IMHO there is more to a good brake than just power, feel and progressive action are also extremely important.

Good suspension and fork internals are also helpful to ensure good front wheel weight 'loading' and control of contact with Tarmac.

Having good braking power without having to have a vice like grip on the lever also leaves you free to have better control of the handle bars. Which is beneficial.

The stock brakes can definitely be made to work well, of that there is no doubt. But that doesn't mean they cannot be improved further, and/ or changed to suit different riders requirements.

So, in full knowledge I'll be shot down in flames for a million different reasons, here's the route I've gone down:

ashman said:

Phil I think you know what i mean by staying upright, don't come off, my Norton is built for great handling and I don't do much city riding on it, all my riding is in tight corners on some of our great mountian roads we have up our ways as well as high speed straights, I do ride around the suburbs to get to the outer city limits and is only a short ride to get to the mountain ranges from my place, but you will find a lot of hazards on these mountain roads, slow cars, cattle trucks, horse floats and the occastional kangaroo jumping out in front of you and of course those pesky drop bears that seem to jump from nowhere, I'm not trying to sway you about your brakes, I just love the feel of my front brakes, the big 12" floating disc, Grimica M/C and calaper, with big pads and S/S braided brake line
and one or two finger operation.

I don't work my brakes hard and get long life out of them but its good to know if I do need to stop in a hurry I will have no problems at all.

Ashley

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Ashley, I love it. That is a beautiful looking brake and obviously with impressive performance.
Can you fit it on the left leg?
I could live with that not matching the rear, wouldn't trouble me at all.
I think you've got me in mate. pete.v might want a separate forum to discuss it, but who cares what pete wants?
Talk about a hard headed old beetle crusher!

Of course I knew what you meant by staying upright.
You know me. I'll attack anything like a snapping terrier.

It's the alcohol. I'm fine till beer can number 50 then Mr Hyde comes out in full force.
But I'm getting it under control, slowly.

Thanks for this Ashley, I might PM you to find out more.
BTW, if you are up Mt Glorious way and see a silver MkIII Interstate, it's my brother.
He's far more civil than me. He talks to people.

Phil

Phil I brought the Grimica set up through RGM over England way they will fit the M111, all up cost was about $500 but that was over 4 years ago now, just go to their web site and look under brakes, they have a few diffrent set ups using the 12" floating kit with racing calapers and M/C.

As for the 50 beers I have just got into the Coppers Extra Stout, bloody good drop that gives a nice punch.

I like riding Mt Glorious way some very tight corners but a lot of riders have gone down as well so its another place the police keep a eye on and then down the range to Somerset Dam and to Esk for breckfast, I will keep a eye out for your brother, but then I get to see a few Nortons out and about.

Ashley

ashman said:

Phil I brought the Grimica set up through RGM over England way they will fit the M111, all up cost was about $500 but that was over 4 years ago now, just go to their web site and look under brakes, they have a few diffrent set ups using the 12" floating kit with racing calapers and M/C.

As for the 50 beers I have just got into the Coppers Extra Stout, bloody good drop that gives a nice punch.

I like riding Mt Glorious way some very tight corners but a lot of riders have gone down as well so its another place the police keep a eye on and then down the range to Somerset Dam and to Esk for breckfast, I will keep a eye out for your brother, but then I get to see a few Nortons out and about.

Ashley

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Just be careful Ashley, Coopers Extra Stout is around 6.9%
I usually start with 50 bottles of Little Creatures olChris sends me.
Then switch to Scotch, another 50 bottles.
Then phone pete.v and tell him I love him.
He doesn't seem to appreciate the call at all.
Must be the time difference.

Phil
ps will tell brother J to look out for you.
He loves his MkIII too. Passionately.

Phil

Not sure if anyone has suggested this but if you want to keep the look of the Lockheed caliper you should upgrade or sleeve the master cylinder. You can get improved feel and better braking if you do.

Braking on cycles is highly over rated feature no matter the ability to stop the tire from turning. Steering to dodge when possible is the best route.

dennisgb said:

Not sure if anyone has suggested this but if you want to keep the look of the Lockheed caliper you should upgrade or sleeve the master cylinder. You can get improved feel and better braking if you do.

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Thanks den
Yes mine has been done. And both feel and braking are relatively good.
A lot lot better than the woody feel combat disc of 72.
I think from memory that brake did actually work if you really squeezed hard on the lever.
It would move maybe half inch then a brick wall in feel.
Most unfeeling brake I've ever experienced.
You couldn't hurt its feelings because it didn't have any.
I had billy carts with better feeling brakes, and that's not saying much.
But this baby is much better presumably because of the mod you mention.
And S/S brake line I have as well.

Phil

hobot said:

Braking on cycles is highly over rated feature no matter the ability to stop the tire from turning. Steering to dodge when possible is the best route.

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You crack me up hobot.
You are a gem.

Phil

Ms Peel is a gem not me. Any of your cracks occurred w/o hobot help. Best front slowing up-grade is bigger softer wider front patch, then how much you spend to make it as easy to lock as you want or need and can control. Almost none of my panic braking ever occurs on good traction, traffic darting out in city road construction sandy area, tree fall on muddy paths, bus stopped, tractor towing hay rakes slowly around a steep bend with storm wash out grit, someone with plenty of time to pull across your path but instead just spins on the loose leaves of over hanging trees...
This last one flashes me back to Less[sp] a Norton club president that a jeep did this so he got 7 leg fractures to surgical stabilize then home a week till clot killed him. That was last years ending doing what he loved, which I can tell you is NEVER true d/t the terror of knowing its gonna hurt real quick for a long time, then surviving the after effects or just gone instantly.

Once I thought I was being smart riding SuVee with hot hod Harley sportsters family into most testing plateau face twisties on a descend by hanging back till they swung out of sight so I could speed up through apex then slow up in short opens, to rush around to see school bus stopped with bikers all right behind it, car coming around the other lane so trail braked fine till hitting winter ice road grit that snatched front out in low side but reflexly STOMPPED on rear brake that caused a hi side back upright then kept the full upright, both tires in line gritting groin squealing aimed into other narrow lane at the car coming till slowed enough I could release squealing front and jerk back in my lane to about instantly recollapse forks just short of lock up and stopped a bike length from knocking down the unsuspecting bikers. These turns marked 10-15 mph, HD's taking it about 35 me about 45 on SuVee but on Peel entered at 55 to exit at 65. No way to put that kind of G force on a cycle and keep both tires on surface on any tire for a time. At some traction speed thresholds brakes seize to behavior as we ordinary use them and I for one think i'm too stupid un-skilled to ride every time i get tested on braking crisis, even if I win it always feels more lucky than wise practiced skilled applied. Spend all ya like in confidence inspiring upgrades but don't fool your selves on how much better than stock set up you've gained in real life and death public risks.

Fast Eddie said:

IMHO there is more to a good brake than just power, feel and progressive action are also extremely important.

Good suspension and fork internals are also helpful to ensure good front wheel weight 'loading' and control of contact with Tarmac.

Having good braking power without having to have a vice like grip on the lever also leaves you free to have better control of the handle bars. Which is beneficial.

The stock brakes can definitely be made to work well, of that there is no doubt. But that doesn't mean they cannot be improved further, and/ or changed to suit different riders requirements.

So, in full knowledge I'll be shot down in flames for a million different reasons, here's the route I've gone down:

Click to expand...

Eddie
That's a beautiful looking brake too.
These certainly make the old Commando set up look…….well old.
These are the sort of advancements that certainly modern times have given us way past 1975.
And it's one of the really exciting or fun things about a Commando, you can make it what you like and just how you want it to be. Or dead stock standard if you prefer. Well, you can do that with any bike of course, but our special core bike of choice is the Commando. At the pub, on several occasions guys have wandered in asking the owners (unless they see me first in the corner, slicked back hair, leather jacket and dark glasses……….and gym shorts????? What a total loser!!) who owns the Norton out front? None of them have ever asked the question about original or otherwise components. I happily explain to them that the Fastback style had gone by 1975 and how Norton cleverly created several different (looking) bikes from one. I even mention the Mikuni, a piece of Japo Crapo, feeding fuel to the beast. I did have one fellow who told me I looked ridiculously dressed to be riding a Commando, I won't even tell you what I said to him, but he didn't like it.

So, good looking brake Eddie and I'm sure it works real fine. I did ask the question of acetrel, who probably thought I was kidding, what about twisting forces? Then thought about it. I guess the wheel axle (and to a lesser extent mudguard braces) takes the brunt of such forces. I'm not sure if I'm correct but testing heavy braking with the front axle not fitted will tell me.

Phil

hobot said:

Once I thought I was being smart riding SuVee with hot hod Harley sportsters family into most testing plateau face twisties on a descend by hanging back till they swung out of sight so I could speed up through apex then slow up in short opens, to rush around to see school bus stopped with bikers all right behind it, car coming around the other lane so trail braked fine till hitting winter ice road grit that snatched front out in low side but reflexly STOMPPED on rear brake that caused a hi side back upright then kept the full upright, both tires in line gritting groin squealing aimed into other narrow lane at the car coming till slowed enough I could release squealing front and jerk back in my lane to about instantly recollapse forks just short of lock up and stopped a bike length from knocking down the unsuspecting bikers.

Click to expand...

hobot
Something here intrigues me. The wild 200 yd ride I had from 70mph with blown rear tire tube, brother and heavy saddle bags at back swinging the rear end crazily like a clock pendulum took quite some time till safe completion down road on other side. So I remember almost every bit of it. Even had time to pray.

These incidents of yours of which you've had so many, more than the cigarettes I can smoke in a night, how the hell do you remember them all? Do you, like me, keep a pilot log book? Not that there's anything like this in my pilot log book. Don't even bother making entries these days with too many hours to be stuffed recording anymore.

And your graphic recollection of a 5 second or so nasty incident is amazing. I can't even remember an incident free ride home from the pub, but for other reasons I guess.

Just how do you do it?

Phil

phil yates said:

Fast Eddie said:

IMHO there is more to a good brake than just power, feel and progressive action are also extremely important.

Good suspension and fork internals are also helpful to ensure good front wheel weight 'loading' and control of contact with Tarmac.

Having good braking power without having to have a vice like grip on the lever also leaves you free to have better control of the handle bars. Which is beneficial.

The stock brakes can definitely be made to work well, of that there is no doubt. But that doesn't mean they cannot be improved further, and/ or changed to suit different riders requirements.

So, in full knowledge I'll be shot down in flames for a million different reasons, here's the route I've gone down:

Click to expand...

Eddie
That's a beautiful looking brake too.
These certainly make the old Commando set up look…….well old.
These are the sort of advancements that certainly modern times have given us way past 1975.
And it's one of the really exciting or fun things about a Commando, you can make it what you like and just how you want it to be. Or dead stock standard if you prefer. Well, you can do that with any bike of course, but our special core bike of choice is the Commando. At the pub, on several occasions guys have wandered in asking the owners (unless they see me first in the corner, slicked back hair, leather jacket and dark glasses……….and gym shorts????? What a total loser!!) who owns the Norton out front? None of them have ever asked the question about original or otherwise components. I happily explain to them that the Fastback style had gone by 1975 and how Norton cleverly created several different (looking) bikes from one. I even mention the Mikuni, a piece of Japo Crapo, feeding fuel to the beast. I did have one fellow who told me I looked ridiculously dressed to be riding a Commando, I won't even tell you what I said to him, but he didn't like it.

So, good looking brake Eddie and I'm sure it works real fine. I did ask the question of acetrel, who probably thought I was kidding, what about twisting forces? Then thought about it. I guess the wheel axle (and to a lesser extent mudguard braces) takes the brunt of such forces. I'm not sure if I'm correct but testing heavy braking with the front axle not fitted will tell me.

Phil

Click to expand...

There's lots of different opinions on the twisting topic Phil. I've ridden with twin discs and single discs and don't have a particular opinion on it! I do agree that a fork brace seems logical, but I raced a 900cc Weslake with a single disc and zero bracing and can honestly say it never gave me any noticeable Issue.

It's similar with the 'flimsy' stanchion flexing issue. I'm sure they do flex, but it doesn't seem to slow down the guys racing the 1000cc, relatively heavy, triple racers!

At least one large single disc has a lot less unsprung weight compared to twin discs.

Glad you like my brake set up Phil, can't tell you what it's like though, but I will do as soon as I've got it running!

Fast Eddie said:

phil yates said:

Fast Eddie said:

IMHO there is more to a good brake than just power, feel and progressive action are also extremely important.

Good suspension and fork internals are also helpful to ensure good front wheel weight 'loading' and control of contact with Tarmac.

Having good braking power without having to have a vice like grip on the lever also leaves you free to have better control of the handle bars. Which is beneficial.

The stock brakes can definitely be made to work well, of that there is no doubt. But that doesn't mean they cannot be improved further, and/ or changed to suit different riders requirements.

So, in full knowledge I'll be shot down in flames for a million different reasons, here's the route I've gone down:

Click to expand...

Eddie
That's a beautiful looking brake too.
These certainly make the old Commando set up look…….well old.
These are the sort of advancements that certainly modern times have given us way past 1975.
And it's one of the really exciting or fun things about a Commando, you can make it what you like and just how you want it to be. Or dead stock standard if you prefer. Well, you can do that with any bike of course, but our special core bike of choice is the Commando. At the pub, on several occasions guys have wandered in asking the owners (unless they see me first in the corner, slicked back hair, leather jacket and dark glasses……….and gym shorts????? What a total loser!!) who owns the Norton out front? None of them have ever asked the question about original or otherwise components. I happily explain to them that the Fastback style had gone by 1975 and how Norton cleverly created several different (looking) bikes from one. I even mention the Mikuni, a piece of Japo Crapo, feeding fuel to the beast. I did have one fellow who told me I looked ridiculously dressed to be riding a Commando, I won't even tell you what I said to him, but he didn't like it.

So, good looking brake Eddie and I'm sure it works real fine. I did ask the question of acetrel, who probably thought I was kidding, what about twisting forces? Then thought about it. I guess the wheel axle (and to a lesser extent mudguard braces) takes the brunt of such forces. I'm not sure if I'm correct but testing heavy braking with the front axle not fitted will tell me.

Phil

Click to expand...

There's lots of different opinions on the twisting topic Phil. I've ridden with twin discs and single discs and don't have a particular opinion on it! I do agree that a fork brace seems logical, but I raced a 900cc Weslake with a single disc and zero bracing and can honestly say it never gave me any noticeable Issue.

It's similar with the 'flimsy' stanchion flexing issue. I'm sure they do flex, but it doesn't seem to slow down the guys racing the 1000cc, relatively heavy, triple racers!

At least one large single disc has a lot less unsprung weight compared to twin discs.

Glad you like my brake set up Phil, can't tell you what it's like though, but I will do as soon as I've got it running!

Click to expand...

If the forks flex too much, and break, I'm sure it will be the most effective slowing down your 1000cc mates have ever experienced! Ouch!!
Please tell me how the brake goes when you get it running.

You are a good man Eddie.
Phil

If the forks flex too much, and break, I'm sure it will be the most effective slowing down your 1000cc mates have ever experienced! Ouch!!
Please tell me how the brake goes when you get it running.

You are a good man Eddie.
Phil[/quote]

It would!
I will.
I know!

phil yates said:

hobot
Something here intrigues me. The wild 200 yd ride I had from 70mph with blown rear tire tube, brother and heavy saddle bags at back swinging the rear end crazily like a clock pendulum took quite some time till safe completion down road on other side. So I remember almost every bit of it. Even had time to pray.

These incidents of yours of which you've had so many, more than the cigarettes I can smoke in a night, how the hell do you remember them all? Do you, like me, keep a pilot log book? Not that there's anything like this in my pilot log book. Don't even bother making entries these days with too many hours to be stuffed recording anymore.

And your graphic recollection of a 5 second or so nasty incident is amazing. I can't even remember an incident free ride home from the pub, but for other reasons I guess.

Just how do you do it?

Phil

Click to expand...

Your first line pretty much sums it up. I can still envision the old lady merging into my lane at zero miles an hour, just as I'm trying to give room to the joker to my left who's merging on top of me. I can tell you what kind of car she was driving. The feel of the weight of the bike on my left calf. The smell of burning denim (please, Phil; put some long pants on!) I still hear the sound of the fan behind the grill of the F250 Ford pickup (ute) as it parked over the top of me in the middle of the street, looking up at its front suspension. She didn't stop. Once confronted for having caused an accident, she replied "I'm going to the Food Fair; you do whatever you want!". No witnesses; I was on my own. That was in '83.

Nater_Potater said:

phil yates said:

hobot
Something here intrigues me. The wild 200 yd ride I had from 70mph with blown rear tire tube, brother and heavy saddle bags at back swinging the rear end crazily like a clock pendulum took quite some time till safe completion down road on other side. So I remember almost every bit of it. Even had time to pray.

These incidents of yours of which you've had so many, more than the cigarettes I can smoke in a night, how the hell do you remember them all? Do you, like me, keep a pilot log book? Not that there's anything like this in my pilot log book. Don't even bother making entries these days with too many hours to be stuffed recording anymore.

And your graphic recollection of a 5 second or so nasty incident is amazing. I can't even remember an incident free ride home from the pub, but for other reasons I guess.

Just how do you do it?

Phil

Click to expand...

Your first line pretty much sums it up. I can still envision the old lady merging into my lane at zero miles an hour, just as I'm trying to give room to the joker to my left who's merging on top of me. I can tell you what kind of car she was driving. The feel of the weight of the bike on my left calf. The smell of burning denim (please, Phil; put some long pants on!) I still hear the sound of the fan behind the grill of the F250 Ford pickup (ute) as it parked over the top of me in the middle of the street, looking up at its front suspension. She didn't stop. Once confronted for having caused an accident, she replied "I'm going to the Food Fair; you do whatever you want!". No witnesses; I was on my own. That was in '83.

Click to expand...

Great story Nathan.
I don't have a pair of long pants.
I wore them first time I took Jenny out.
She said they were so filthy and disgusting, she took them home and burnt them.
Saturated in petrol from years of leaking Amals, apparently they nearly burnt her house down!
And having bought the Fullauto head, I can't afford another pair.
I'm afraid it's gym shorts for me, all through winter, and beyond!!

Phil

Gorgeous brake upgrades each with its own special appeal.

Philis, I struggle like many with living past friends that took many memories with them. Born injured then infected to out of body states of fever plus Viet Nam era hippie mad monk electronic assisted altered states leaves me a bit too conscious when might rather have blanked out. I fear a crippling event each trip so do force myself to record various travel sections for play back in bed ridden stupor states. I did not get to my level of panic handling understanding w/o having repeated variations happening too fast to even know what went wrong but the worse ones can take me years to understand. I'm also Dianetics trained to battle with the Scientolgoists pestering my friends, so usually can replay details recorded below intellectual shut down by shock-pain, enough to learn something. Most dramatic was the Ninja low hi side on head snicking 4th at 14,000 rpm after covering brakes waiting on chief instructor to finish his turn he was sent out by Kieth Code to show me why the X's were they were. Ugh, I learned all I ever want to know on fatso heated race tires on race set up liter sports bikes, pashaw they even fall over in the Gravel pits going straight ahead, sheeze! I did get sort of run off track like couple other dudes that got life flighted out, me over 90 mph freaked at first then like Bro' Rabbit thrown into Briar patched, relaxed eased throttle, absorbing roughness holding bee line w/o brakes till reasonable to turn back on track.

A big influence on my attitude was old move called Billy Jack. in a murder court case he stated death was his constant friend which made every thing he did meaningless yet most important things to do.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=billy+jack

To propperly break in brake pads one should work up to hardest braking ya can just short of ever locking up to avoid spot melt welds till hotter than you ever expect to need to get them after wards. One unmentioned reason I want good hp/wt on Peel is not to wait so long on my routine brake testing contests with myself and environment.