Hot Nasty Norton Brake

I was thinking of fitting some massive twin disc arrangement on the new BRG MkIII. Something that will haul me down quickly from hobot like lightning speeds. But then I thought, why bother? I don't plan to go very fast anyway.

I intend sitting at the Mittagong lights all day, revving her up and looking real nasty. Every Japo that pulls along side, when the lights go green will burn off in a cloud of smoke and my cop mate will book em 200 yards down the road. I'm not even going to let out the clutch. Just sit there all day revving her up and scaring the crap out of them!

Simple things amuse simple minds.

But can someone tell. How did the 72 combat test report say the front brake was TOO powerful??
Mine was terrible. This MkIII is much better, but has a MC S/S sleeve and S/S brake line, that's all.
At least one member in here reported his combat disc brake was very good.
Everyone else says not. me too.

How did they create one only good front brake for that road test?
I want to know. Not that I plan on ever moving from the lights, but good to know it is there if you have to.

Phil

hobot knows and also about what those fitting only a 90-100 size tire are missing out on w/o knowing.

I use twin Suzuki discs with Lockheed calipers on my bike. The pads are the old asbestos type, and the master cylinder is the diameter used for a single disc. The brake is one finger operation and extremely powerful. If you are racing, it needs to be like that. If you set a drum brake up to be like that, the slightest over-reaction becomes a crash and I have the injuries which prove that.

acotrel said:

I use twin Suzuki discs with Lockheed calipers on my bike. The pads are the old asbestos type, and the master cylinder is the diameter used for a single disc. The brake is one finger operation and extremely powerful. If you are racing, it needs to be like that. If you set a drum brake up to be like that, the slightest over-reaction becomes a crash and I have the injuries which prove that.

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acotrel
Would not a brake like that tend to "bend" the skinny Commando stanchions under very heavy braking? They are a lot thinner than moderno's.
I recall someone in NZ years back saying his very powerful new single disc brake was twisting the forks under heavy braking.
I also seem to recall they were trying to build a fork brace to avoid this.

Phil

hobot said:

hobot knows and also about what those fitting only a 90-100 size tire are missing out on w/o knowing.

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Never seen one of these.
Not even at church.

Where do you get your tires hobot?
I did 10,000 miles wear in one burn out yesterday.
Fun, but very expensive!

Phil

I locked my front tire for a few feet this afternoon on clean, dry pavement. Totally stock brake (dechromed disc though).. what more do you need?

concours said:

I locked my front tire for a few feet this afternoon on clean, dray pavement. Totally stock brake (dechromed disc though).. what more do you need?

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Nothing more con.
My combat could never do that.
Nor my current MkIII. Not that I've tried or needed to.
Seems then some performed better than others. But why?

Phil

You need a firm grip to stop a combat, but you sound well practiced. :lol:
The Google search in the top right hand corner works well for repetitive questions.
( waiting for some witty sheep/kiwi/dole reply :mrgreen: )

Big Red hot nail through the bootie's restriction "valve" pin hole, lighten and clean up the rotor and if still wanting two finger soft pussy feel get RGM race lever. I had more brake grip on old hard 110's than new 19" 100 Avon Roadridder which out of the dozens of tires on a few different cycles its the only size front tire I've not worn to a V shape instead of a flat center on about useless wear band going away to cords in 1.5 rears instead of 3. Ms Peel could out brake them ABS stoppie prone moderns that can lift rears trail breaking that Peel would throw pilot over bars if they tried that on her. But shoot tri-links completely change the way one see's and uses brakes, expect for cluster of deer that I roared into so fast they ran in to each other and spun out on THE Grit, bounced off tree's and fences in terror to big wiggling road lumps. If tire traction is not always the main issue then yep ya need better brake power anyway ya can. Ya seen that smoking front tire stunt I plan to learn it on Peel but ain't yet seen a stunt rider ride bike lenghts with rear suspended on locked screaming front tire I'd routinely practice entering out village square, so long and slow trying to stoppie strangers had time to run up to me yelling I'd locked my brake to try to save them seeing a crash. Slowing on a ponderous heavy MKIII is pretty important feature over powering one up. Have I ever mentioned I ya might not know what ya missing outside hobot Combat Commando camp? There's wonderful kits out to help support non Norton modifications.

Best rear brake ever was on my current sweetie pie Trixie which caught me out once roaring up steep hyw out of our village square showing off for a sport bike crowd getting about 70 in 2nd before slowing to turn around couple hundred yds to park again, applied front then intended to madoerate with rear till off pavement but it locked up to slightly cross up in easy balance so just rode out the diagonal skew to al stop then gently on engine drag coated back to town. Up to their hp limits Combats are as quick as moderns and a good one can brake almost as well but I'm spoiled on my great one.

72Combat said:

You need a firm grip to stop a combat, but you sound well practiced. :lol:
The Google search in the top right hand corner works well for repetitive questions.
( waiting for some witty sheep/kiwi/dole reply :mrgreen: )

Click to expand...

Well I see, top right hand corner eh?
I'll try that.
It doesn't take two hands to press it does it?
I've only got one free!

Phil
ps that's a kiwi joke.

hobot said:

Big Red hot nail through the bootie's restriction "valve" pin hole, lighten and clean up the rotor and if still wanting two finger soft pussy feel get RGM race lever. I had more brake grip on old hard 110's than new 19" 100 Avon Roadridder which out of the dozens of tires on a few different cycles its the only size front tire I've not worn to a V shape instead of a flat center on about useless wear band going away to cords in 1.5 rears instead of 3. Ms Peel could out brake them ABS stoppie prone moderns that can lift rears trail breaking that Peel would throw pilot over bars if they tried that on her. But shoot tri-links completely change the way one see's and uses brakes, expect for cluster of deer that I roared into so fast they ran in to each other and spun out on THE Grit, bounced off tree's and fences in terror to big wiggling road lumps. If tire traction is not always the main issue then yep ya need better brake power anyway ya can. Ya seen that smoking front tire stunt I plan to learn it on Peel but ain't yet seen a stunt rider ride bike lenghts with rear suspended on locked screaming front tire I'd routinely practice entering out village square, so long and slow trying to stoppie strangers had time to run up to me yelling I'd locked my brake to try to save them seeing a crash. Slowing on a ponderous heavy MKIII is pretty important feature over powering one up. Have I ever mentioned I ya might not know what ya missing outside hobot Combat Commando camp? There's wonderful kits out to help support non Norton modifications.

Best rear brake ever was on my current sweetie pie Trixie which caught me out once roaring up steep hyw out of our village square showing off for a sport bike crowd getting about 70 in 2nd before slowing to turn around couple hundred yds to park again, applied front then intended to madoerate with rear till off pavement but it locked up to slightly cross up in easy balance so just rode out the diagonal skew to al stop then gently on engine drag coated back to town. Up to their hp limits Combats are as quick as moderns and a good one can brake almost as well but I'm spoiled on my great one.

Click to expand...

I must have bought the wrong combat hobot.
And clearly, didn't ride it properly, certainly not to its full potential!

Phil

When I first brought my 74 850 new the front brakes worked very well for what was around, being only 17 years old and thrashed the shit out of my Commando I use to lock the front brakes up all the time with no problems at all, but as time goes they start to wear and even rebuilding the standard set up still never worked the same as when new, them days there was no internet or imformation about the brakes except what was in the workshop manual, here in Australia and in Queensland it was illegal to put S/S brake lines on road bikes at the time so had to suffer with the dreaded rubber brake line, but most of us defided that law as my orginal rubber brake line swelled up so mush it blocked the line and have a look how small the brake pads are compared to moden brake pads.

If you want moden brakes there are a lot of great systems on the market these days, the best thing I ever done was to modenised my front brake system when my old Norton tried to kill me, it wasn't a hard decistion, your life or good brakes, I went for the full Grimica system, its not the best system on the market but for what I brought it for it works quite well for my riding style, as for the rear brake it works well as everyone knows the front brake does all the work the rear just slows the rear down but will lock up if need to, my modem brake set up on my Norton works as well as my new Thruxton if not better, but then my Featherbed Norton is so much lighter with moden brakes.

Ashley

I had two Combats with factory brakes that I couldn't lock or even squeal no matter my panic grip. I've digital grip meters to compare me with body builders to know I'm in same league. Those two Combat now brake perfectly to me, I can have large animal appear or stuff fall off a truck while closing at the ton to panic grab brake for about ideal squeal w/o fear of lock up but soon have to feather off pressure to avoid locked below 60 mph. If I reflex-panic grab modern brakes like that it can just skip right out. I don't feel very good, confident skilled rider to my mind especially on brakes so find the Norton kit with minor mods matches my intensity about automatically so I don't have to be that good to have safe fun, most the time. The only reason I keep Trixie is to make up for what I've done to Peel but I keep Peel because she out performed anything I could get my kix on but for pure hp/mass to some top speed, which don't mean much when dicing the chicanes and twisted hazards that draws so many here to live or die doing it. I'd hang out at big pubs too but so scary to ride after dark anymore and have to ride brakes constantly d/t the instant need of it out the midnight blue. But brakes ain't fastest way to stop but to steer with at speed so can be used to get full side ways on both edges plus frame rail like a snow skier but I hardly ever want to do that but its a must have skill I'll practice on Peel with crash cage in pasture then parking lots.

killer brakes for your Norton

concours said:

I locked my front tire for a few feet this afternoon on clean, dry pavement. Totally stock brake (dechromed disc though).. what more do you need?

Click to expand...

Try riding the bike fast thru thru BC's Duffey Lake Loop or any other Mountain road where speeds have to be pulled down two or three times in succession without adequate time to cool. The tiny original pads turn red hot and the braking is not just weak, it is non existant.
Then when everything cools, sure the stock brake will slide the tire again, but it doesn't mean much .

I rode the same stretch of road in the same way with the Madass single disc, could not make it overheat.
I don't see any need for the twin disc on aCommando, but if it is just for sitting at traffic lights, it might be OK.
Glen

ashman said:

When I first brought my 74 850 new the front brakes worked very well for what was around, being only 17 years old and thrashed the shit out of my Commando I use to lock the front brakes up all the time with no problems at all, but as time goes they start to wear and even rebuilding the standard set up still never worked the same as when new, them days there was no internet or imformation about the brakes except what was in the workshop manual, here in Australia and in Queensland it was illegal to put S/S brake lines on road bikes at the time so had to suffer with the dreaded rubber brake line, but most of us defided that law as my orginal rubber brake line swelled up so mush it blocked the line and have a look how small the brake pads are compared to moden brake pads.

If you want moden brakes there are a lot of great systems on the market these days, the best thing I ever done was to modenised my front brake system when my old Norton tried to kill me, it wasn't a hard decistion, your life or good brakes, I went for the full Grimica system, its not the best system on the market but for what I brought it for it works quite well for my riding style, as for the rear brake it works well as everyone knows the front brake does all the work the rear just slows the rear down but will lock up if need to, my modem brake set up on my Norton works as well as my new Thruxton if not better, but then my Featherbed Norton is so much lighter with moden brakes.

Ashley

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Ashley
I'll hang in with what I've got, it's not too bad and actually has good feel. If and when it kills me, I guess I'll think of a better one. Guess that will be a long think Thanks for your advice Ashley.

Phil

hobot said:

I had two Combats with factory brakes that I couldn't lock or even squeal no matter my panic grip. I've digital grip meters to compare me with body builders to know I'm in same league. Those two Combat now brake perfectly to me, I can have large animal appear or stuff fall off a truck while closing at the ton to panic grab brake for about ideal squeal w/o fear of lock up but soon have to feather off pressure to avoid locked below 60 mph. If I reflex-panic grab modern brakes like that it can just skip right out. I don't feel very good, confident skilled rider to my mind especially on brakes so find the Norton kit with minor mods matches my intensity about automatically so I don't have to be that good to have safe fun, most the time. The only reason I keep Trixie is to make up for what I've done to Peel but I keep Peel because she out performed anything I could get my kix on but for pure hp/mass to some top speed, which don't mean much when dicing the chicanes and twisted hazards that draws so many here to live or die doing it. I'd hang out at big pubs too but so scary to ride after dark anymore and have to ride brakes constantly d/t the instant need of it out the midnight blue. But brakes ain't fastest way to stop but to steer with at speed so can be used to get full side ways on both edges plus frame rail like a snow skier but I hardly ever want to do that but its a must have skill I'll practice on Peel with crash cage in pasture then parking lots.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking maybe just fix the calliper over the wheel rim like a push bike. At 100mph, I'm thinking that should chuck you 100yds forward in an emergency braking episode, without the bike!

Norton brakes are not very good. The incorrect sized master cylinder is the first problem. The small diameter solid disk is the other. You need more disc with holes to cool and shed water if you get caught in the rain. I have Brembo calipers with EBC discs. Custom made mounting brackets. 2014 Triumph master cylinder. But these are "modern" components and may not be what you want on your bike. I want to stop when I need to. There are lots of options out there to upgrade the brakes...it's worth it in my opinion.

this is not a light issue to me and force myself to at least once a rode on tarmac to squeal and then faster harsher for fork to collapse to keep a sense of my vulnerability fresher and if I can't bring myself to do so or freaks me out with almost snatch downs then I tuck tail and simmer down. I was shocked by Peels stopping power to point I pull unintended stoppies on my SV650 just slowing some before blind crests or pulling to short stop to gas up or park. When I was at track school and everyone in a rush onto track I took side path braking harder and harder till rear lifted in spike of fear to let off. Point being its entirely possible to be very happy with Lockheed basics - via ugh another stupid hobot mod that ain't caught on yet. About half my crashes are d/t taking very sharp steep down hill turns when grill of vehicle comes rushing around a blind right where I'd be unless instant stop that tips almost vertical on front then falls back down but ground so sloped away no where to put a foot down to catch bike before its mostly already horizontal to fall rest of the way on me and pops another lever off.

One event I'm very proud of was on my SuVee coming down same Gravel steep the 3 gods got it down last fall, very sharp one.5 lane turn at base of a run I can hit 70 on and being night saw no head light glow so thought I'd take it a bit loose/hot then just before time to lean a glint of a PU grilled appeared but hesitated as my first reflex is power steer around and thought there was room but then saw driver door wide open with a fella standing behind it, so would hurt both of us, so straightened up aiming light to go around passenger side about 25 mph my now to see door wide open with fella behind it TOO!!! so nothing left but try to stop before smacking door or the fence beyond, squealed on both brakes so delicate accurately balanced I did not hear pebbles rolling to end up next to the open window looking at a wide eye'd dude still aiming his pisser while clouds of fog like dust drifted by so thick was like a surreal Fellini scene for real. This all happened in about 10 yds 3 second long. We nodded at each other after clouds cleared from scaring the pee pee out both us.

dennisgb said:

Norton brakes are not very good. The incorrect sized master cylinder is the first problem. The small diameter solid disk is the other. You need more disc with holes to cool and shed water if you get caught in the rain. I have Brembo calipers with EBC discs. Custom made mounting brackets. 2014 Triumph master cylinder. But these are "modern" components and may not be what you want on your bike. I want to stop when I need to. There are lots of options out there to upgrade the brakes...it's worth it in my opinion.

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Yeah I know it's worth it den, one quick needing stop that doesn't stop me might be my last. The boys in the pub say the same about me riding in gym shorts. I do nothing right. Giving three girls a lift home to their houses on the back of the combat with no helmets wasn't wise either. But the devil made me do it! Also, I charged them two dollars each which payed for my night's drinking.

If I upgrade the brake, I don't want to change the look too much, I'm not averse to things modern when they are necessary.
I am averse to severe gravel rash and leaving my imprint in some dick's car. I know hobot likes it, but I don't.
I'll give it some thought den.

Phil