Holey Artifacts

Ok here's the last state of back side of cut out case.
Out rigger extended into case surface so had to cut thin plate and
use flexible RTV.



New Ms Peels primary case does triple duty, one seal junk out,
two hold blower on, three back up Maney outriger. So I intend
to weld the out rigger to the inner case. Then will case will
have front middle and rear robust support.

hobot said:

Click to expand...

I had a brake disc ( undrilled) crack from a bolt hole to the outer edge. The last thing I'd be doing is drilling a Norton cast iron disc.

hobot said:

Bigger holes needed bigger drilling tool. Once I figured out that
Supertrap was a heavy power stiffler I got rid of all but butt plate
and opened it up which opened up power to embarrass '04 600cc 4's.
I know I could of shot my eye out w/o goggles but lucked out again.
Oh yes deep kettle drums at idle but hot jets roar out 8-10" on blips.

Click to expand...

You know Supertrapp make end plates with big holes in them? Same effect but a bit neater. They do say " Not for highway use" on them, but hey, who cares about that?

Gday Hobot,
in the picture showing off the Maney outrigger I see at the base another hole. Is this a slight adjustment in the fittment of the outrigger? Ive got one of these to fit to my (slow) project.
Foxy

1. Heinz Kugler in New Mexico drilled the rotor from a template he
developed. Sorry to read of drill rotor cracking by Hienz's don't.

2. There is no adjustment on the out rigger other than following
the top gear box bolt to set belt tension. Chain too if you can
keep oil in with such a gaping hole. Rubber sheet may be
a way to go but good luck getting it to adhere.
Unsure how to mostly seal and fix the out rigger to case next time.

3. As to the Supertrap blow out, this was my 2nd one as first
got lose on my bouncing ways and blown off on the highway
never to be found. So after great disappointment how poor
Peels new power band was I got pissed and tried the slug hole
as proper end of failed experiment. OMG was I surprised!
Open 2-1 header almost would stall putting around and
didn't help top end in Peels set up. Oh yeah I tried the washer
baffle trick of HD's, you can twist but it didn't do squat.
Open mega was a dog down low but did come into its own mid 6000
but would get me arrested or shot by farmers.
There will be a resonator chamber effect with next end cap set up.

Ok I am stupid, but could someone explain the purpose of the outrigger other than it looks cool?

britbike220 said:

Ok I am stupid, but could someone explain the purpose of the outrigger other than it looks cool?

Click to expand...

That nice long mainshaft sticking way out the side of the gearbox, usually holding a big, heavy clutch, tends to wobble, etc. The bearing out there supports the mainshaft.

Exacto-mondo swoosh.
Another way to look at it, out rigger puts rear drive chain loads
between two bearings. It thereby helps stabilize clutch wobble
on main shaft whip-twist so belts will stay on pulley.

I put the SS adjuster forward so can be dealt with while 1' case on.
Fortunately once belt adjusters set one can mark gear box position
and leave adjusters set so they just slip into cradle holes then
nip up their inside cradle nuts.

hobot

The outrigger will save your main-shaft by supporting the load from the clutch. It may also keep the box from cracking by reducing the force on the case bearing. Having broken a main-shaft and cracked a box, I feel that the outrigger is necessary to stand up to aggressive street riding.

Outrigger also takes the load off the crank. If the mainshaft on your gearbox is flexing, it adds strain on that tiny radius on the crank and this apparently where they love to break when hammerd/abused!
Foxy

I think the Outrigger is a great idea but since I do not plan on going to a Belt-Primary I don't think I can fit one.

Unclviny

I have seen early 'clutch basket support' bearings incorporated into the primary case
itself and then some braces to help support rear end of case.
These inspired me to attempt to attach Maney out rigger rather than just seal around it. Alas I don't know a way to allow for gearbox-chain adjusting and still
fix a bearing so it really does help support and then seal - mostly as good
as felt curtain. Other wise a few triplex chain runners say they get 50K intervals or more w/o servicing the region, sleeve bushes, bearings and clutch center.
They seem like Biblical wonders to me.

I'm sticking with factory tradition on my Trixie Combat as a test of myself,
and restraint not to use her up. Peel is for abusing to the max but
she ain't really Norton no more.

hobot

Hi Hob & everyone else,
personally it looks to me that someone had a new drill & did not know when to stop drilling holes before they got bored.
Most of the stuff drilled now looks real shitty. Yes the disc will probably have better cooling which is fine but the rest just looks ruined.
Some of the other stuff written afterwards makes no sense to me either. Maybe it got lost in translation across the atlantic.
Most of the commandos in here look great but some owners should spend time in prison for vandalism of historic bikes.
I bet I get a lot of grief after writing this but its my opinion & I dont give a monkeys. (Is that a british term of not giving a toss, let us know LAB).
Cheers all, Don
I,m off for a long ride now on my non drilled commando.

stupid question number 2, 3: I get the out rigger thing now, thanks, but in hobots case I am confused because wouldn't the primary be the support for the original set up as well as a belt drive or is everyone with a belt drive running an out rigger? This is the first time I've seen this set up. I was confused by the use of an out rigger and then cutting up the primary to cover the out rigger? Isn't the out rigger there to support, look cool and allow you to run the belt drive w/o a primary case. It just seems like over kill to me, extra money spent and waste of a primary?

You can run belt without the outrigger as many do. The primary s job is to keep the primary chain oiled-clean and your toes out. The primary case doesn't actually support the shaft. To be able to run the outrigger and keep the primary you have to cut the clearance in the back of the primary. Many people with belts would just as soon run open primary of some sort but if dirt roads, trails, and water crossings are envisioned than closing it up is a good idea to keep long belt life.
My only question on this setup is about alternator cooling. Running closed, sealed primary with no oil, how is alternator cooled? Or is this one of those made up problems with no real world justification?

Will

Hobot, are you going to use a run wet belt?

Hobot,

You could set up your cradle like a MK111, no adjustment, and weld the outrigger to the inner case and use a setup on the bottom of the case like they are using for those e-start kits to get the belt tension right. Just an idea....

Will

hobot said:

... So I intend to weld the out rigger to the inner case. Then will case will have front middle and rear robust support.

Click to expand...

"Beware the law of unintended consequences"

Removing and installing the newly conglomerated (welded up) affair may not be as easy as you think!

Don, I csn't take offensive to someone opinion, especially when it
approaches mine on appearances and weakened structures.
But heck ole Burt Monroe would sand or file down frame tubes,
counting strokes or measuring thickness - then see if they broke
and reduce the strokes some what on next try.
I'm no Monroe extremist but did get deectabe detectable lighte-rness.
Only the holey kick start wlll be retained and it'll need welding
additions to work around under shot shift linkage.

britbike220, Maney's out rigger attaches to cradle by the 2 g/box bolts.
Primary is just a case cover in most cases, but not Peel as also
holds up Drouin. I'd like to try to better support it and
do expect it to get jerked on in crashes if not impacted.
Will be mid night oil intriguing engineering, trial error fit and
fart with test to pull it off or fail and leave it alone.

Will and Paul, Peel is so special she's hard to relate to even by me.
I can not run Lucas Alternator + 40 mm belt + blower pulley
as puts 1/2"-10mm gap in cover or Drouin mount. A 30 mm belt would work.
To get charging I'm putting altn. behind engine barrel and drive
it by under run pulley to top run of belt and jack shaft a pulley
inbetween the case and cradle. Jack shaft case bearing will
put extra loads on case. I can not use this pulley as tensioner
because the top run get full drive torque pulling it straight
across top of pulleys. I don't think there is enough meat
in 1' case to retain tension idler with over 100 lb-ft torque
not far off idle throttle.

Half the fun of this hobby is the unknown journey.

hobot

looking up material strengths to replace Ms Peel front iso bolt with a 2 ft long one and stumbled on this review that fits here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_of_materials

OUTRIGGER Bearing .
how-the-west-won-eventually-then-shut-shop-t11783.html
Relevant info on ' causes ' & remidies here ( 70s John Player Nortons ) .

At raceing speeds , driving at 11/10ths , as young Willie tended to , stresses are enormous .
The I.o.M. was considered very hard on drive chains .

Takeing off or landing , missmatched rpms , the loads are transferred through the Chains. :shock:

The Mass of the Clutch assembly , particularly when the Loads are Varied in this manner , the offsets
( Teeth to Shaft ) are the moment through which the leaverage are applied .

It was found the MAINSHAFT Bowed , altering the meshing of the teeth in the transmission .

Therefore it could be understood that the Mk III was significantly updated in this respect .
Also , the transmission location being Fixed , it should be possable to incororate the
'Clutch ( sprocket ) support bearing , in the inner chaincase ( fixed , bias adjustable ? )

Therefore , burnouts , dumping clutches , and careless clutchless shifting ( Box Cold ) are best avoided .
Even the 5 speed Quaife were not immune to mainshaft breakage in the 72 series .

good test is primary inspection cap removed , finger on Chain . Stand on the Rear drive chain . :shock: