"Goof-proof" anti drain valve sequel (2012)

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That sure looks like the business Foxy. Kinda spendy for sure, but if CNW/Jim have one up their sleeves it probably won't be much cheaper than this one. Cheap work ain't good and good work ain't cheap.
 
Foxy said:
Gday Nortonspeed, the valves so far produced have aesthetic problems for me! Too agricultural looking, I want something more fitting for the space shuttle. So this is what Im thinking of using, it ticks all the boxes for me except the price but you have to pay for quality! $348 us http://pingelonline.com/guzzlerELECTROFLO.htm
Ok its designed for fuel but Ive communicated with Pingel staff and they were quite confident in its ability to handle this application, having to put up with hot oil and flow requirements.
In comparison to the AMR mod, Im assuming it would be around the same price?

Foxy

Nice Foxy, sure looks promising :!:
 
"here are 2 things it WILL cause, excessive crankcase pressure forcing the drive side crank seal out and massive amounts of oil forced up to the rings to have to contend with. "

Well, perhaps I've been lucky then. One would think that my Commando, sitting unused for up to 6 months at a time would blow that seal on a regular basis...but it doesn't. One would also think that if the oil is being forced up past the rings that there would be considerable smoke on that start up...but there isn't. Neither my current 850 or my old 750 ever exhibited any reaction of that sort to wet sumping. Admittedly, that is only two Commandos but it's hard for me to imagine that I had the only two bikes that didn't blow seals after long periods of wetsumping if it was as common as the stories seem to indicate.

I have to admit I wonder if there are not more stories about blown seals than there are actual occurrences of blown seals. ;)
 
I bought one from Old Brits while purchasing some other parts. Anyone have experience with these?
 
Ugh I never bother to drain sump just add some to tank if tool low to run a 30 sec to get tank refilled. Never blew the cranks seal in two Combat nor in current Combat that grit ate its rings up so lost of blow by till head leaked but crank seal still seals. I don't let it idle slow cold either and get it to 1800-2000 rpm soon as it takes easy throttle and more concerned with cam/lifter wear than some oil weepage or a rather rare seal blow out. Still not a bad thing to prevent wet sump sitting still or on the fly, so have at it any way ya can. When I got my 1st Combat it'd tank was empty so small engine shop worker topped off 2 qt's then started up - till 30 sec later at least a qt was puddle on floor from tank over flow. Said guess I got a free oil change in the bargain. Didn't blow seal but leaked 13 places after 30 yr hard life after being the shops sale demo test ride bike.
 
Foxy said:
Ok its designed for fuel but Ive communicated with Pingel staff and they were quite confident in its ability to handle this application, having to put up with hot oil and flow requirements.
In comparison to the AMR mod, Im assuming it would be around the same price?
Foxy
Foxy,
The price for the AMR modification is $70US plus shipping each way. Did they tell you what the seals are made of? Would it be a deal breaker if it was anything other than brass lapped on brass?

http://www.amr-of-tucson.com/nortech.html
 
Foxy,
The price for the AMR modification is $70US plus shipping each way. Did they tell you what the seals are made of? Would it be a deal breaker if it was anything other than brass lapped on brass?

http://www.amr-of-tucson.com/nortech.html[/quote]

Gday rpatton, thanks for the link to AMR showing cost of their mod. In answering your questions, the pingel vale is all billet aluminum and the seals are 1 viton and 2 nylon. I know there are various grades of both but being able to handle petroleum products I believe seals should be up to the job. If not Im thing they can be changed out for better.
Postage to Australia is approx $60 plus $348 for valve makes it spendy!
 
Aside from the great expense of the Pingel unit, this just might not be a great place for bling. I'll probably go the other way with the valve(when I do get round to it)
Seems to me it might be cosmetically better to have a piece of anti-bling there rather than the shiny piece. Here I'm thinking that cosmetically no valve or an invisible valve (amr mod) is ideal, so why not powder coat the brass valve and whatever switch I use satin black?
That way it will just fade into the woodwork, hopefully at a casual glance just look like a lump in the hose.
I do respectfully aknowledge the right of others to add bling as desired :D

Glen
 
Foxy,
It's the temps that the seals might have to deal with that made me wonder. The ARM deal includes some work on the oil pump but there was a post that mentioned that CNW at one time used the ARM type mod but it didn't always work. Maybe fixing up a ARM check valve yourself is something to look into. According to Fred, the MkIII cover with the checkvalve can be used on the earlier motors, if you can find one for a reasonable price then just do a transplant.

http://www.oldbritts.com/11_066161.html
 
the MK3 cover is NOT a bolt on job. the oil pump outlet and seal is different and the piston has a history of sticking. when it sticks it will still allow it to wet sump BUT all you need to do is increase the clearance as it seals on the pump outlet and not in the bore.

rpatton said:
Foxy,
According to Fred, the MkIII cover with the checkvalve can be used on the earlier motors, if you can find one for a reasonable price then just do a transplant.

http://www.oldbritts.com/11_066161.html
 
nortonspeed said:
The worst type automatic anti drain valve I have experienced myself was the RGM type: full alloy body, steel ball and pretty tight spring causing an oil pressure drop of approx 10% throughout the rev range compared to using no valve at all. Best type (so far) the CNW valve: alloy sides with transparent centre part, synthetic material ball and much less tight spring (which I am still using now) causing oil pressure loss close to nothing. I learned the CNW valve also is produced with a steel ball (accompanying a tighter spring?) I never tested one of those which possibly will cause some oil pressure drop also due to a tighter spring to keep the heavier steel ball seated. Also the 3 piece CNW type valve has to be lockwired as it tends to split.
Maybe the solution to the ultimate automatic valve is an one piece body and a spring just strong enough to keep a very light ball seated preventing oil to flow.
Your thoughts please :idea:

Russ:
I used a manual valve for 3 years in combination with a disclock-reminder-wire (one end on my trottle grip and the other end on the kickstarter) to be sure NOT to forget to open the manual valve. The inevitable happened, don't ask me about the circumstances but I did forget to open the valve finally. I rode for 4 miles only to find out there was zero pressure on my gauge. Immediately I opened the valve and was extremely lucky no harm was done inside my engine. From that moment I fitted an automatic anti drain valve and got rid of the manual one.
Nortonspeed,

I was checking the CNW web site, they don't have the anti drain valve listed. Do you have a photo/price? I guess a call or e-mail to them would find out if they are selling them. I hear they have a simplified wiring harness too, anyone install one yet?

MF
 
bill said:
the MK3 cover is NOT a bolt on job. the oil pump outlet and seal is different and the piston has a history of sticking. when it sticks it will still allow it to wet sump BUT all you need to do is increase the clearance as it seals on the pump outlet and not in the bore.

http://www.oldbritts.com/11_066161.html

Windy, I see what you mean. From the picture at the bottom of this link, it looks like it uses a wider seal and outlet .
 
nortonspeed said:
[quote="commando6868Nortonspeed,
I was checking the CNW web site, they don't have the anti drain valve listed. Do you have a photo/price? I guess a call or e-mail to them would find out if they are selling them. I hear they have a simplified wiring harness too, anyone install one yet?
MF

MF here you go:
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com/catalog/engine.asp
http://www.hollandnortonworks.eu/?lang=EN&page=10[/quote]
Yes, thanks. Time to get the credit card out.



MF
 
commando6868 said:
nortonspeed said:
[quote="commando6868Nortonspeed,
I was checking the CNW web site, they don't have the anti drain valve listed. Do you have a photo/price? I guess a call or e-mail to them would find out if they are selling them. I hear they have a simplified wiring harness too, anyone install one yet?
MF

MF here you go:
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com/catalog/engine.asp
http://www.hollandnortonworks.eu/?lang=EN&page=10
Yes, thanks. Time to get the credit card out.



Just checked, they don't sell them anymore.

MF
 
I do not run any devices on my 71 Commando and am generally of the belief that it is not a problem. However, it is definitely harder to kick over while "sumped". I actually changed over to modern push button bike because I am older now and need more creature comforts. I swore I would never own a bike that was you did not tickle and kick. Aging sucks. Anyway, if I were to put a device to cope with sumping I think I would use the simple in line ball valve with a buzzer component ala Jay Leno. Alternatively, I have eyed these pumps for some time and thought they would be excellent to mount in the void on the Commando motor that looks like a place for a starter motor. Push a button and whir the oil back to the tank. It would look and sound cool. Take a look and consider this if you a die hard anti sumper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Scaven ... SS:US:1123
 
aceaceca said:
I do not run any devices on my 71 Commando and am generally of the belief that it is not a problem. However, it is definitely harder to kick over while "sumped". I actually changed over to modern push button bike because I am older now and need more creature comforts. I swore I would never own a bike that was you did not tickle and kick. Aging sucks. Anyway, if I were to put a device to cope with sumping I think I would use the simple in line ball valve with a buzzer component ala Jay Leno. Alternatively, I have eyed these pumps for some time and thought they would be excellent to mount in the void on the Commando motor that looks like a place for a starter motor. Push a button and whir the oil back to the tank. It would look and sound cool. Take a look and consider this if you a die hard anti sumper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Scaven ... SS:US:1123

Are you kidding? :shock: :mrgreen:
 
I tried something similar. I have one of Jim's sump PCV's. I figured that if I removed the plugs and kicked it over that I could use the valve as a pump to move the oil from the case to the tank. I watched the breather outlet into the tank, no joy. Drat, foiled again Dudley.
 
@ foxy - did you order the pingel valve in the end?

Please keep us informed!
 
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