Gas tank sealer

epoxy and also resin

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Aha! I believe I see the source of your confusion. Resin is a general term. Epoxy, Polyester, Acrylic, Vinyl Ester, are all types of resin. The most typical type of resin for use in reinforced fiberglass is polyester which is usually catalyzed with a peroxide curing agent.

Ron: ah, damn, you ARE good! Guilty as charged, I has 'assumed' that when you spoke of 'polyester fiberglass' (again, I read literally <blush!>)... I had thought you meant poly used in the fiberglass STRANDS itself. Anyway, will admit, I've used many gallons of the stuff, hundreds of square feet of the meshed 'glass cloth... and never really read what the stuff was while using it. As long as it does it's job, right?

Graeme: no, no, I know you wouldn't steer me wrong about Hirsch's. I'm just greedy enough that, from MY perspective... I had wished that your tank was a 35+ year old Norton tank. As is, not sure how mine would compare with a 3 year old tank. However, so far Hirsch seems to be the winner, 'less I go with either a steel or alloy tank.

The pics I hope to eventually post... apparently the shop person that poured it in the tank accidently allowed it to harden in the tank. Maybe paniced, allowed the stuff to 'pool' out of the way of the petcocks as it became apparent it was getting to thick to drain out fast enough? You won't believe the pics. Looks like a football sized hunk of hardened crap inside the tank. Yeah... lucky me. To bad that place is out of business, but it's a no-brainer why they went belly up.

This is just a test, likely won't work, but what the heck. For some odd reason, no matter what I do at photobucket, that site instantly tells me that I am not 'elegible' to open an account with them. Anyway, if this pic doesn't show here, I'd appreciate it if anyone can view the crap at flickr, as it's my HOPE that someone will positively identify the crap for me. Whatever it is, it MOST DEFINATIVELY does not work.

OK, going to try to post the link, below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45422879@N06/4170035488/

OK, amazingly, the link works. It's for real, only takes you to four (4) pics of the crap in my tank. Doesn't take you to a pay, porn or perv site, honest. I've figured out why so much was left in the tank. Pin-hole leak on the side from when it was accidently dropped circa 1975 or so. This 'sealer' was apparently left pooled on the right side extreme outboard side, intentionally, I assume, in the hopes it would seal the pinhole leak. Perhaps the best shot to identify if any of you guys know what this is, is the last shot, where I've one chunk of it (out of quite a few!) held up to the light. The other pics show a 'weathered' look, and the stuff was almost like a worn rubber, and TORE after being bent. This last pic held to the light is what the stuff looked like in the interior of the clump, apparently not having been worked over by the fuel.

I am seeking a DEFINATIVE ID of this substance, as I'd like to broadcast to all future Norton owners the crap doesn't work (or at best is just a 'stop-gap' temp thing waste of money).

Gary

Man, that stuff is thick and nasty... maybe it wasn't applied right. My caswell is just like a thin layer

I just posted a 5th pic on the above link. It is from a smaller tank I just picked up. A different sealer was used in it, and a thin dried piece, much like a small dried leaf, fell out when I shook it upside down (I could hear it in there loose). Can anyone please ID this sealer, too? It would appear that it, too, is at best a 'stop-gap' temp fix, also doomed to fail over time.

So I also wouldn't want to inadvertantly purchase it, either.

What a PITA.

WOOOAAA!!!! I think that used to be alive, just make sure to keep your face away in case it jumps at you and eats you from the inside out :mrgreen:

I think you shoud seriously consider cutting the bottom out and redoing it with a much larger opening. Working from a small hole will NOT work, and don't ask how I know this

Jean

Laughing with you, Jean. Hey, I DID say it looked like an alien down in there, didn't I? Now, if you start very rapidly tapping a knife blade tip between the fingers of my right hand... :shock:

Anyway, this is why it took me a few months. I've actually got all that shit out of the tank. Actually was no picnic, lots of Acetone used, which may have deteriorated even some of the OEM inner lining. Rinsed it with water a few times, and poured out a fistfull of junk. Looked like sand, other crap, and lots of (actual) fiberglass fiber strands. As such, while the 'glass strands could have been lining the interior of the tank per OEM... I'm thinking that this stuff is actually some 'glass and epoxy/resin poured in. Thing is, I just cannot tell, so hoping someone clearly identifies it for me. Doesn't look like any 'glass I've ever used, but of course it had been submerged in fuel. Actually, the stuff could have easily pre-dated my fathers death, as the acetone first took of a slimey (once hardened) mess.

Can you identify the one pic of the other sealer from the other tank I bought? My hand is visible, holding up a piece of it that looks like a small leaf.

My belief... at least my hope... is that if I can remove and clean out the Amal carbs, get them working... and then replace some fuel lines (the existing ones actually crumbled from whatever ate the tank)... then, if I can just get a clean tank, she should be able to be fired up. Hell, maybe I should just strap a red plastic 5 gallon tank on her, plumb the fuel lines? I mean, I could always spray paint the can a gloss black? I mean, from a distance, and if I'm moving fast...

(hey, just joking!)

Hi Gary, If these 2 tanks were mine, and I'm kind of glad they're not, I would pick the worst one and cut the bottom out and sand or grind the inside and re glass it with the proper fuel resistant resin and fibreglass cloth. And then line it with whatever you think is the best liner. At least you will have a tank to use until you find a sutabily priced steel tank.

Or keep an eye on ebay or elsewhere for a steel replacement.

The tank that was your dads I'd put away for prosperity.

graeme

I've got a fiberglass Roadster tank for my 70 project. I had coated it with Caswell's previously but when the tank was finally fitted on the bike there was an interference with the FCR's right by the fuel line fitting. I mulled over some options but finally decided to cut some clearance in the glass tank. An entire 1 pint kit of Caswell's was used in the tank and you can see on the cut out piece a nice 1/16th inch layer. I'm curious to see what the rest of it looks like.
The plan is to form a piece to plug the hole (approx 3x3) using glass cloth and Caswell Novalac resin and stick it in place. Then I'll cut the tank in half and repair the patch properly from the inside. While it's apart the entire inside will be sanded and finally coated with lightweight glass cloth and Caswell's. Hopefully the body of the tank is thick enough to allow removing half the thickness on either side of the cut line so a good reinforcing layer or 2 of cloth can be used during final reassebly. These fiberglass tanks are kind of heavy to begin with so it may weigh a ton. But it'll be my small, heavy tank.

MY OPINION FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH:
I swear to God, this readily seems to me to be the 'burning question' with regards Nortons of the 21st century. At least, here in North America, as I understand most other places still have and use real gasoline. Ludwig was kind enough to suggest on a different thread that all my answers would be found on this site, but that I should first use the site search function... as many might be reluctant to answer the same question so many times. Most unfortunately, I have done this, and done it several times. Sadly... I can find NOTHING that resolves in a definative answer, what, and how best, to rectify fiberglass fuel tanks to handle the (ever changing) fuels of not just today, but the unknown fuel additives of tomorrow. People have told me that Caswell's has to be "re-done" every couple of years, as it, too, will break down under the relentless onslaught of todays fuel.
Regardless of which country you/we may live in, eventually every fiberglass tank is going to fail. That's such a self-obvious truth to me... well, it's why I am flabbergasted that there is not yet (apparently) any definative resolution to the fiberglass tank 'fix'.
Obviously, a steel tank will alleviate this issue. Yet I refuse to believe that there are not smart enough people out there to have the greater Norton community DEFINATIVE answer for this issue as of yet. Seems impossible to me, as every time I turn around, people are telling me about their concerns, problems, etc. So many posts talking of "the known fiberglass tank problems". All this which brings me to this: as a 'concrete' thinker... I can only come to the conclusion that I *must* eventually buy a steel tank, and then do self experiments on the 'glass tanks. I shall do so. But again, I find it inconceivable that this issue has not been resolved satisfactorily after so many years. In any event, bless each and every one of you for your insights and comments, as they all helped me come to this decision. ~~Gary

Hi Guys:
I broke down and bought an aluminum tank for my fastback from walridge a few years ago.I recently redid my 68 fastback tank with the badges with caswell because it is the tank for that year and my bike is matching numbers.After reading all the posts it seems to me the only safe thing to do is drain the tank if it is going to sit for more tan a few weeks.Here in Canada we are having the ethenol problem also and caswell seemed the only way to go.Some guys have 2 to 3 years on them now with no problem.I am now doing a 71 fastback and will just change out the aluminum tank as I choose to ride them.They are both red anyway.A steel or aluminum tank would definatly be the way to go for piece of mind on a trip.My buddy almost lost his engine on a trip we did as it gummed up.I had just restored the bike 200 miles earlier. He went right out and also bought the aluminum fastback tank.Way cheaper than another motor job he said.
Bruce

Gary,
In the end there are many reasons to buy a steel (or aluminum) tank rather than try to find a solution for fiberglass tanks. One big one is the concern that in an accident a fiberglass tank can break more easily and increase the chance for fire. I'll only line a fiberglass tank if I am going for originality or an acceptable steel/aluminum tank cannot be found, such as a fastback or Dunstall.

If you are experienced or have access to an experienced fiberglass person, it might be more worthwhile to work on a permanent fix for your tank, but a permanent fix may not practical for the average Norton owner. Personally, I have several years with Caswell in a properly prepared Fastback tank and have used it in a NOS Production Racer tank (but has very little time on it ). General wisdom here is this will not be permanent. I'll see. As you said yourself, modern gas keeps changing, so how will we ever know if a liner will be "permanent".

As I have mentioned before, aluminum is not particularly alcohol friendly, so it is conceivable that future reformulation in gasolines may cause problems with those as well.

Gary,

Fiberglass tanks were outlawed in the US a long time ago, they were not fitted on many bikes, so not many people are familiar with them. Now compound the lack of exposure to fiberglass tanks to the recent addition of ethanol in very few markets, the hype about different tank liners and you have the perfect recipe for a confusion soup.

I think you should be OK if you use epoxy resin to repair the tank and Hirsh or Caswell sealer as an added insurance against alcohol laced fuels, if not, then you only option is to find a steel tank or an alloy tank which will no doubt change the appearance of your bike since AFAIK they don't make alloy interstate tanks.

Jean

All to true, guys. Part of my astonishment at the lack of a 'definative' answer is NO DOUBT to in part to my WISH that there was a definative answer (for whatever that was worth). Perhaps what I should best do, is play a 'make pretend game', and let's NOW revert and pretend that this thread topic has now become:

STEEL vs. ALUMINUM (or any other alloy) TANKS: which is the collective brain trust's best determined choice? As in, pro's and con's of each?

I've this mental picture of a multiple Norton owner, say six good bikes, yet with only ONE good metal tank shared between them all, LOL's.

BCH: aluminum, or steel, what say you?

RON: as always, respect what you have to say. I'll definately be experimenting one day on fiberglass tanks. Also, I shall well document the process... not because I do good work, but in case IT WORKS and I'd like to share it with future Norton owners experiencing this same dilemna. In essence, basically (hopefully) provide them with what I wish I could be provided with now. That is, the definative answwer.

JEAN: as new as I am to this site (and Nortons), even I have found that you CAN purchase 'one-off' Interstate tanks of steel and alloy. And that's part of my confusion... in WHY IS IT that all these little bits of knowledge are not centralized? One man giving me Burton, a different man providing me with Baker (can get a tank from either) and I believe someone just today (this thread) dropped yet ANOTHER name I must look into. Just seems that if there's ever a definative 'fix' it should be all collected and nailed down in one spot.

Again, thanks everyone. Oh, don't forget...

Steel... or aluminum? Your thoughts, everyone?

Walridge 2008 catalogue lists just about any alloy tank you would want, even the interstate which is special order and is very pricey.

Dave
69S

Steel vs. Aluminum

Steel

Pro- Stronger than aluminum and less dent prone
Pro- less prone to vibration cracking (work hardening)
Pro - available as used OEM or new reproduction in certain models

Con - Will rust inside if condensation allowed
Con - Heavier than aluminum
Con - Less of a Bling factor than polished aluminum

Aluminum

Pro - Lighter than steel
Pro - That cool, racy look when polished
Pro - Won't rust

Con - Dents easily
Con - More work to keep that polished look
Con - Only available as reproductions and quality varies
Con - Aluminum is a relatively reactive metal so corrodes relatively easily.


My $0.02

The Waldridge steel Roadster tank is on sale for $450 CDN. That's $425 US. The tank is made in India. I damn sure won't buy one made in Pakistan. Lot of US dealers selling Pakistani tanks. I suppose that comes with a "Support Our Troops" sticker.

Hey, Ron! Sounds like a STEEL tank is the way to go over an ALUMINUM tank to me.
So far, anyway. :roll:

I know that aluminum MUST be painted, or it does slowly oxidize. Zinc chromate, I believe, is the primer for aluminum. As such, I suspect that you'd need the inside of an aluminum tank always filled with fuel to prevent oxidation... just as with a steel tank to prevent rust?

I've never had an aluminum tank... is it really of thin enough sheeting to bend easily, like, if I BANG MY KNEE on it relatively hard??

Yes, I think I shall get steel, if for no other reason that I don't know the idiosyncrosies of an aluminum tank.

A steel tank can rust even if it's full because the fuel floats on the water. Anybody remember the bottoms falling out of Honda 400/4 tanks in the late seventies ? The recessed filler chanelled the water in and they rusted invisibly.

Steel tanks are more common in Europe because fibre was outlawed earlier than in the US but decent tanks are now expensive everywhere.

If I wanted to preserve the lines of a fibre Interstate, I think that I would gut it and use the outer skin as a cover for a fabricated steel tank within.

Gary said:

JEAN: as new as I am to this site (and Nortons), even I have found that you CAN purchase 'one-off' Interstate tanks of steel and alloy. And that's part of my confusion... in WHY IS IT that all these little bits of knowledge are not centralized? One man giving me Burton, a different man providing me with Baker (can get a tank from either) and I believe someone just today (this thread) dropped yet ANOTHER name I must look into. Just seems that if there's ever a definative 'fix' it should be all collected and nailed down in one spot.

Again, thanks everyone. Oh, don't forget...

Steel... or aluminum? Your thoughts, everyone?

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Sorry, I only checked RGM for an alloy tank, they have a number of café tanks (my main interest) and only a Fastback tank in aluminium, but I did say AFAIK. At any rate, reading all the answers and opinions still raises questions on any tank material. Probably the best course of action is to petition all governements to use corn to make tortillas and cheetos rather than fuel :wink:

Jean