Gas tank sealer

Jean: just sharing info, as it's all good.

Can anyone, either now or in the future, PLEASE identify this FAILED gas tank liner for me? It is a light brown in color and, lining the insiode tank walls, it's pretty thin. Not an 'even coat', kind of thinner in some smaller areas, thicker in other areas (meaning a more visible light brown/tan in color). I'll try to post a pic of it below:



Hope this worked. OK, great, got it right. Anyway, the lose piece I shook out looks much like a dried leaf, and I'd like to identify it so I (and perhaps others) won't wish to waste our money buying a 'fix' that in reality doesn't work... or at least, doesn't work with the fuels I'm forced to use.

This stuff is called... ???

Gary

And here is a couple of pics of a DIFFERENT failed gas tank liner. Can anyone please identify this stuff for me? Also, if you do, please identify WHICH one of these two (2) failed fuel tank sealers that you are identifying? Again, I'd hate to accidently buy the same failed sealer as either of these two...



Here's another shot of some of it OUT of the tank. Obviously left in place thick on purpose, apparently in attempt to stop a pinhole leak...



And this last pic shows a shot of a CLEANER chink of this failed sealer. Like said, for me and any future readers interested, I'd like this stuff identified.



TIA, Gary

I suppose it depends on the tank but I've had alloy tanks around that caused no problems. They aren't as tough as steel and you do have to respect that, but any blow that dents one would have also given you a paint chip on something else.

Hi Gary & welcome to the most helpful & enthusiastic Norton gig on earth. I ask stupid questions all the time as I hadn't had a Norton for a long time & forgot what I did know. Very helpful people here. As for finding out what that crap is, short of chemical tests you will never know. There are so many things people could have used over the years. The important thing is prep work. As said before cutting the tank open may be the only real way to get it all. I have a radiator guy who is a tad bit eccentric. He developed a little system to go in and bead blast with little tools, mirrors & lights to see inside tanks. He also has little vacume tools to suck out the excess so it can't puddle to thick & crack. Against my wishes he used A POR 15 product in a friends tank but It's now been sold so I don't know how it's doing. (trying to find out) I truley don't think we will ever have your "definitive answer" for these things. Maybe some day someone will come up with a "bladder" bag that has fittings for the petcocks & filler cap and will be completely gas proof. I hope something works. I have a 68 BSA glass tank that I think was sealed with Caswels but not sure. It's a shiny solid grey looking stuff & hard as a rock. Been in use with pump gas for at least three or more years with no sign of failing yet... BIG on the YET because I'm sure it might some day. I just got a old production racer tank & it will need to be delt with. I think I will take the shorter way round & have my radiator guy prep it to death & seal it. I won't do a high $ paint job until I trust it's going to last a while. Leaning to Caswels or Hirsh? My 2 cents as to that crap in your tank is that it could be Por 15 but only guessing because the stuff looked kind of a clear rusty color when my friend let our radiator guy put it in his tank. Bottom line, if I could get a steel tank for what I want I would. I may spend the $ for a aluminum one some day. I think either type of metal will be cheaper in the long run.. Again welcome, great thing your doing with your dad's bike. My dad was scum bag, never met him until I was 25 & even though he lived near by & was very well off he never even bought myself or my bro a pair of shoes. When we met he was so mad that I had motorcycles (Nortons in fact) he couldn't stand it. He owned & crashed planes but hated bikes. When he died I took his 72 Mercedes 280 sel. The plan is to sell it & use the $ for another Norton just to spite him!!!

Gary, the stuff you took out looks like a piece of fiberglass (cloth and resin) that a PO used to fix the tank from the filler neck, the rest is probably all resin that was sloshed in the tank but never adhered because it was impossible to properly prep the insides from a hole the size of the filler neck, if the PO had been a dentist, he would have fixed his patient's teeth from the nostrils :wink:

I still think you could do a good job by cutting the tank open and fixing it with fuel resistant resin (epoxy) and coating it with either Hirsch or Caswell, just paint it temporarily with a rattle can, put the nastiest fuel you can find (E85) and see if it goes trough, if it's OK, have it painted properly. At the point you are now, the tank you have is junk, so you will not lose anything by cutting the bottom off and doing a proper assesment of what to do next.

As someone mentionned (I had tought of doing this too) you could just use the top of the tank and fit any metal tank that fits under it or have one made, it doesn't have to look nice, just fit under the fiberglass shell.

Jean (can you tell I'd rather do it myself than buy something :lol: )

Yeah, sorry to all of you guys... I guess I am sucking up some bandwidth, here. I have every intention of getting a metal tank... probably the steel vs. the aluminum. I shall then cut the 'glass tank open one day, see what can be done from the inside out, per your suggestion, Jean. As is, my Dad's carbs are shot, full of gunked up (leeched) resins, epoxy, whatever that crap is, so I shall have to take them apart and clean them out. Point being, any fix that doesn't work completely will just ruin the Amal carbs again in very short order... which is why I think I'd best go with the steel tank.

Never cleaned, cleared out, or even opened up an Amal before. Difficult? Complex? I mean, I'll be using the manuals, not scared of it, just never done it. If you guys had your carbs fouled up with old resin crap... what kind of "kit" would you expect to need/purchase? (I just followed a posted link to an amal site in the UK, I believe). I think my Dad's amal's have that '932' stamped into them. However, glad I figured out how to post pics.

Could these carbs being cleaned out be as simple as clean up, replace the gaskets, slap 'em back together? Clymer's and Haynes both don't seem to think they're a big deal. I've done plenty of wrenching before, but carbs were always 'black magic boxes' to me. Oh, well, eager to get learning.

GTSUN: sorry about your father, and selling the car for Norton, or even Norton parts/upgrades certainly sounds appropriate to me! As for me, I think I started this/agreed because I knew my Dad wanted me to have and get the Norton running again... but I now realize that he KNEW I'd fall in love with his damned bike

Before installing a kit try to have somebody who knows Amals look at them for slide wear.

jeandr I never thought of the tank shell over the top of another steel tank. Great idea. If mine fails, Caswell, I will give your idea ago.
Ian

Scruff said:

jeandr I never thought of the tank shell over the top of another steel tank. Great idea. If mine fails, Caswell, I will give your idea ago.
Ian

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79X100 mentionned it a few replies earlier. I had thought about doing that to my Fasback's glass tank before I changed my mind and decided to turn it into a café racer. When I just wanted to get it back to look like a Fastback, it was either get an alloy Fasbback tank from RGM which is not quite as "flowing" as the fiber one, try to fix the fiberglass tank or gut it and make a steel tank under the shell. It's nothing really new, that is the way the JPN was done, it had an extended steel tank with ugly welds under the fiberglass shell.

Jean

What is RGM? People keep mentioning it, but forget I'm as new and green as a newbie can be.

The below is a picture of my dad's amal. As can be seen, the thing is all fouled up with failed sealer resins. Additionally, the thing has raised letters stating '932' on it and, under that, is stamped 'R26'. So... 932 R26 (possibly R28, as I can't quite make out that last number). Anyway, thought I'd show the carb for two (2) reasons, one to show the failed sealer, and ALSO TO hopefully get a little help! Frankly, I'm confused as to what kits to purchase for these AMAL's. Now... 932... this would mean I need to purchase "Mark 1 concentric' rebuild kits... correct? Christ, I'd hate to purchase the wrong rebuild kits this winter. And please... when I say I'm confused, telling me to read the manual again isn't going to help.

What kits am I going to need?



Thanks very much, gentlemen!

Gary

RGM is a company in England that supplies parts for British bikes, http://www.rgmmotors.co.uk/ As far as the 932 goes that is the size of the carb.

You can buy the kits here: http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_start.html Just look at the site and you will find it.

Gary said:

The below is a picture of my dad's amal.

Gary

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Ok, you posted a picture of an Amal but did you ever post pics of the whole bike?

Gary -

It really doesn't matter what kind of sealer is in there. When they fail it's a nightmare. The common ones are Bill Hirsch (white urethane, easy to identify), Kreem, Caswells, and POR-15 all of which are some sort of epoxy that look clear-ish like what you have.

My personal opinion is that the tank is toast and not worth saving. Period. Bite the proverbial bullet and get a steel tank off eBay. I sealed my steel tank with Hirsch's stuff to keep rust out of the gas but that's a detail.

Amal carbs are actually easy to work with. Most problems can be corrected with profuse cleaning. There are a couple of o-rings, a float needle, and bowl gasket that are easily replaced and readily available from Brit bike suppliers (your 932's are called MKI Concentrics). Anything beyond that can be dealt with after the bike is running and you have some miles on it.

I hope my son takes care of my Norton when I'm gone.

Gary said:

As can be seen, the thing is all fouled up with failed sealer resins.

Click to expand...

Paint stripper applied with a small paint brush will probably shift those stains?

Gary said:

Additionally, the thing has raised letters stating '932' on it and, under that, is stamped 'R26'. So... 932 R26 (possibly R28, as I can't quite make out that last number).

Click to expand...

If the R/H carb is R26, then the matching L/H carb should be marked '932 L27'.

The Burlen (Amal) website contains lots of useful information: http://www.amalcarb.co.uk/

The 'Bushman's' site also has some very useful Amal tuning info: http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans%20Carb%20Tuning.html

I agree with all the others. Get rid of the tank, bite the bullet, you have a piece of junk right now, sorry. Walridge has alloy tanks in various models for a price or take your time and find one on e-junk. Take the Amals apart, they are no secret, believe me (I think there are only about 6 parts on the bottom end), I am no expert, but there is not much to the amals except when the slides wear out or if you change the silencers. Get some cab cleaner or better yet, take them to someone that has a ultrasonic cleaner, and clean everything to the nit. Get a new kit for re-assembly. There is a recent thread on new floats and needles, get them and find a .016" diameter guitar string and clean out the pilot like it says in the Bushman's thread. Put it all back together an see what you have. It may be a surprise. These bikes were always easy starters unless there is something wrong.

Dave
69S project

Damn, just lost the post! OK, (second attempt) I hope to answer the last 4-5 guys questions/comments, but I can't at the moment. Bought an 850 commando; rationalization is it'll be Christmas in a while, and something to ride while working on my Dad's bike next summer. Unfortunately, I just sustained a extraordinarily painful sprained right ankle and, while failling, somehow managed in the midst of the contorted twisting to rip my left knee out of joint (old sports injury). How friggin rediculous can it get?! Right ankle, left knee?! What, they couldn't be on the same friggin side?! Friggin pain!! FRIGGIN PAIN!!!!!

&*^#!!#()#-SOB-(!#(^^$#%$%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:

Bought a 850 to ride while working on your Dad's. I like your rationaizing skills. In my youth I convinced a girlfriend (one I should have married) to cover my part of two months rent so I could buy a V-50 Monz Moto Guzzi. She happily did thinking it would give me something to do & help tame my "wild ways"!! Fabulouse girl, great bike. Wish I still had them both... Life. Sorry about the injury. Now you can focus on both as you recover.

Hey, you guys, I know I can't remember all of you right off hand, but please know that I am saying "Thank you" to each and every one of you, as I've been slowly learning at least a COUPLE of little things, just by the chats. Also, I value your input, though I shall not list everyone of you guys by name, a comment or two:

Swooshdave: you're correct, I've not posted a pic of my fathers bike. Although I can hobble around fairly well today (sprains, remember), I don't know about UN-burying the thing from out of the garage. I went looking for a old pic I recalled, and am including it below. It was taken almost 8 years ago, I believe. My father was still alive, but had been unable to sit on the bike for, oh, many years before that. Sadly, us kids would pretty much pull it out, clean it for him, try to fire it over, whatever he wanted from the window. Even worse, and I apologize for the sacriledge, but I took this pic NOT of the Norton... but because of a donor door panel I'd cut out and leaned against the bike. Anyway, the bike today does not look as nice as it does in this old pic, it being cleaned and all. And there's a small fairing of some sort from a brother that Dad didn't care for. A seat that he never got to sit on, and some pipes that I don't even know what they are. Anyway, hope the pic appears, and not cropped (I'm computer challenged, too!)



Maylar: I'm sure that eventually your son shall care and carry on the Norton for you. Let's just not hope anytime TOO soon, eh? Of course, if you're afraid he WON'T care for it... you know I would, LOLOL's!! 8)

Again, thanks to every one of you, and I hope to pick your brains some more as I slowly start getting my father's bike back on the road.

Blessings to all of you, and your families,

Gary

P.S. EDIT: ain't that great, looks like I will have to learn how to reduce/smaller/'crop' (??) pics to make it all fit into the picture. Sorry about the above photo, but to tired to mess with learning it tonight.