Frame Plate Orientation Survey

SteveC said:

I think this must be right. My 72 Interpol has no date stamp. I have checked with NOC, AN and VMCC and all of them have no dates recorded for mine or a whole batch of Interpols around my number.
I figure that a batch of bikes were built as Interpols and moved into a separate area for final build and the date was never recorded or stamped At the time of despatch. Mine is an early 200xxx, which should be a January build, but was not registered by the Police until August.

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As I've found out, there are gaps in the factory records in '72 which aren't just limited to Interpols - I have a Combat from July '72 which there's no record of, but it came back from Florida a couple of years ago; 'returned to Country of Manufacture' as one customs form stated.

Just bought a 1972 Commando with another twist. It looks like the nameplate has been put on upside down with the number prestamped before assembly. When they came to stamp the date, they have realised that it is impossible to reach the date box so have added it after the number. This bike was laid up at the end of the seventies and is a bit of time capsule and doesn’t look like it has been interfered with.
British bike so a bit rusty.

SteveC said:

Just bought a 1972 Commando with another twist. It looks like the nameplate has been put on upside down with the number prestamped before assembly. When they came to stamp the date, they have realised that it is impossible to reach the date box so have added it after the number. This bike was laid up at the end of the seventies and is a bit of time capsule and doesn’t look like it has been interfered with.
British bike so a bit rusty.

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It's is my guess that the date was stamped later as well but I don't believe that your date was stamped on the normal assembly line. Here is the original label from 201251. It was move to another frame after a crash in 1973 but it is an original factory certification label.




Notice the the date font is the same size as the serial number but not as bold and that it is "DEC 1971". Also, it is stamped in the other direction so could have been done during assembly. Norton seemed to have been trying to make up their minds how to stamp them More common is like "6 73". But you'll find lots of different formats and label orientation left or right of center and date readable in the same or opposite direction.

This one is an early 850:



Notice that the serial and date are in the same orientation and that the font and weight of the punch is the same. My guess is that each individual number of the serial and the "6" of the date were individual stamps and that the "73" of the date was a pair of stamps held together. Also that they were stamped by a single person in a single sitting.

There are quite a few threads here on this subject and this one captures a lot of it. Unfortunately it appears that any records Norton had on the stamping policy are long gone and there are not nearly enough example pictures of known original labels on frames to be sure about much.

I would love to capture this info in my Commando Survey but getting accurate info without pictures is hard for this subject so I translate the dates provided to date like "Sep 73" which seemed like the most prevalent format when I started but "9 73" seems more prevalent now. https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/CommandoSurvey.aspx

The only two things I'm sure of:
The orientation of the label, the orientation of the date stamp(s), and the format of the date stamp(s) changed over time.
The certification label was on the frame before the frame was on the assembly line, at least in later years - I have no idea whether it was blank, partly sampled, or fully stamped when put on the frame.

They probably used a set of stamps like these including a holder where multiple stamps are held in one block. So for 6 73 they would make up 6 then 2 blanks followed by 73, the gap between the month and year seems to be consistent.


When I worked at the Birmingham auto plants in the 80's it had moved on to a machine for the VIN plate with a computer screen to set it up, then for the VIN also stamped on the body it was a holder with the 17 digits made up by an operator which was then jigged on to the body and pneumatically stamped.

kommando said:

They probably used a set of stamps like these including a holder where multiple stamps are held in one block. So for 6 73 they would make up 6 then 2 blanks followed by 73, the gap between the month and year seems to be consistent.

Stamp Holders

Stamp Holders

www.hittmarking.com

When I worked at the Birmingham auto plants in the 80's it had moved on to a machine for the VIN plate with a computer screen to set it up, then for the VIN also stamped on the body it was a holder with the 17 digits made up by an operator which was then jigged on to the body and pneumatically stamped.

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I agree that the "73" was in some sort of decent holder. All the rest were individually done or in a really loose holder - no alignment like any decent holder would provide.

marshg246 said:

It's is my guess that the date was stamped later as well but I don't believe that your date was stamped on the normal assembly line. Here is the original label from 201251. It was move to another frame after a crash in 1973 but it is an original factory certification label.


View attachment 80264

Notice the the date font is the same size as the serial number but not as bold and that it is "DEC 1971". Also, it is stamped in the other direction so could have been done during assembly. Norton seemed to have been trying to make up their minds how to stamp them More common is like "6 73". But you'll find lots of different formats and label orientation left or right of center and date readable in the same or opposite direction.

This one is an early 850:

View attachment 80265

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The font on that VIN plate is very different from what was being used at 300212: