Fork brace

Interested in installing a Norman Hyde fork brace on my Commando. Problem is, Norman Hyde sez it won't work on my drum-brake front end, since the distance between the forks is wider for the disc model. Is this true? I looked at my parts book, and it only shows a common triple tree for both models. If the forks were farther apart, wouldn't this have to change?

Captain Chaos said:

Problem is, Norman Hyde sez it won't work on my drum-brake front end, since the distance between the forks is wider for the disc model. Is this true?

Click to expand...

No I don't think it is true, (well, Norman is a Triumph man after all) as the forks went 'wide' (from 7" to 7.3/8") in 1964 according to the info I have and they didn't get any wider, the triple tree/yoke part numbers as you say, do not change.

Izzat right? Thanks, I think I'll press them for measurements and figure it out from there.

Interested in why a fork brace with a drum brake. I haven't played with a drum brake front end but would have thought everything was concentric so no twist to deal with under braking?

I have been considering a brace - but have single 13" disk, Grimeca caliper and 1/2" master cylinder plus a stayless front guard - can see the front guard twist when just pusing the bike around and apply the front brake. I prefer the look of the RGM model but they have been out of stock all year and seem in no hurry to restock. :cry:

I fitted a Hemmings Norvil wheel and fork slider onto my previously drum braked 750 with no problems and using existing yokes.

I am sure that there is no difference, except as L.A.B. says, they were widened mid-way through Slimline production.

Although I've seen plenty of Hyde braces, I can't remember ever seeing one on a drum braked model. Perhaps that's not surprising if he says it won't fit !

Where did you get the hemmings brace?

I'm reviving this old thread.

I'm thinking about fitting a Norman Hyde fork brace to my MKIII.

Am I correct in assuming this brace does away with the stock, threaded seal retainers? I just bought some alloy ones and would hate to think it was a waste to fit them if the Hyde fork brace does away with them.

Anyway, is this a good upgrade to stiffen the front end?

Also I wonder if it will fit with a CNW front fender?

Coco said:

Am I correct in assuming this brace does away with the stock, threaded seal retainers? I just bought some alloy ones and would hate to think it was a waste to fit them if the Hyde fork brace does away with them.

Click to expand...

Yes you are correct, the Norman Hyde Commando fork brace does not use the original style seal retainers, but has two extended ones that act as slider extensions, incorporating an extra bush above the top bush in each.

Sorry, Coco, the Hyde brace replaces the threaded collars. It also moves the seal location a couple inches higher on the tube. Here are the mounting instructions in case you don't have them. http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/546102AInst.pdf

Also I wonder if it will fit with a CNW front fender?

Click to expand...

By this do you mean the reproduction ($35.00) Harley Dyna Glide fender? (Oops, did I let one of Matt's secrets slip?) If that's the one, then I'm sure it will fit.

I plan to use the Hyde brace on my cafe racer when I replace the Dunstall front end with a 12" full floating Brembo 4-pot. I'll try to use my 'glass JPN fender with it.

I am using the chrome version Dyna Glide fender on my Interstate with the 12" Brembo set-up and holding the Hyde brace up to it, it looks like there is plenty of room.

Ron L said:

I plan to use the Hyde brace on my cafe racer when I replace the Dunstall front end with a 12" full floating Brembo 4-pot. I'll try to use my 'glass JPN fender with it.

Click to expand...

Out of interest what master cylinder will you use with this setup - a Brembo one or an adapted Commando one and will that be a single or twin disk setup? Obviously my next question is will you make your own caliper mounting plates or can you buy them from somewhere and also what front disks will you use? Sounds like this should be an excellent brake setup

I'm asking as I've got some Goldlines knocking about under the bench in my garage that I could possibly use on my Mk 2A but didnt think it would be possible to fit them.

Ron L said:

Sorry, Coco, the Hyde brace replaces the threaded collars. It also moves the seal location a couple inches higher on the tube. Here are the mounting instructions in case you don't have them. http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/546102AInst.pdf

Also I wonder if it will fit with a CNW front fender?

Click to expand...

By this do you mean the reproduction ($35.00) Harley Dyna Glide fender? (Oops, did I let one of Matt's secrets slip?) If that's the one, then I'm sure it will fit.

I plan to use the Hyde brace on my cafe racer when I replace the Dunstall front end with a 12" full floating Brembo 4-pot. I'll try to use my 'glass JPN fender with it.

I am using the chrome version Dyna Glide fender on my Interstate with the 12" Brembo set-up and holding the Hyde brace up to it, it looks like there is plenty of room.

Click to expand...

$35 ?!? :evil:

Whatever. He did mention he modifies them to fit a commando. (trying to justify the $100 spent on CNW fender).

I was thinking the brace might stiffen up the front end a bit. I'm not racing, I'm just going to be driving the bike the way it should.

I'd also hate to waste the $40 I just spent on nice alloy retainers, but if the Hyde brace does in fact make a difference in handling, I'll be willing to go for it.

$35 vs. $100 or so? Well, I guess that's the price you pay for not having to do all the legwork yourself to find a part that fits and looks good! Ditto for some of their other items. Generally their prices seem (to me) quite competitive when compared to other Norton vendors, but I guess you can always save money by eliminating the middleman. If you know where to go that is.

Regarding the Norman Hyde brace, a friend fitted one to his Commando recently and is having problems with the forks binding. No such problems without the brace. He reckons that the triples are slightly out of alignment, not enough to cause a problem without the brace, but with it there is less tolerance for misalignment. He measured the stanchions as being out of parallel by .010". Doesn't seem like a lot but apparently it's enough to cause problems with the brace fitted.

You may or may not run into similar problems.

Debby

debby said:

Regarding the Norman Hyde brace, a friend fitted one to his Commando recently and is having problems with the forks binding.

Click to expand...

I have a Hyde fork brace fitted on my Trident T160, this type has no extenders, only eccentric adjuster rings, and no matter how I try I can't get the two eccentric rings positioned so that the second one will drop into place as I would expect it to if the adjustment is correct, I have to tap it down into position gently, which squeezes the fork legs together a tiny amount, not enough to cause them to bind however.

I do intend to remove a small amount of metal from one of the eccentric rings to allow it to slide into position more easily, (as I think it should) this does mean removing both fork legs however, so is on my 'jobs to do' list at present.

I haven't mounted mine yet, but a friend of mine has one on his vintage racer and mounted another on a streetbike he built some time ago. His comments were they are a pain to get set up just right and do not tolerate any triple trees that are out of alignment. He found great improvement on the racebike (Norvil disc), but marginal on the streetbike with stock disc, caliper and master.

I just finished (are we ever "finished"?) getting my 850 Interstate "mule" back on the road after last spring's little mishap, so I hope to get back to the mods on the cafe racer soon, including the Hyde brace, brake kit, and Norbsa's fork mods.

I contacted Hyde and they are not making the Commando brace anymore. It does seem to be a tricky thing to align properly due to the adjustable eccentric extenders. Maybe that is why some people are having trouble with it binding?

Anyway, the part is not available so I'm not going to worry about. Unless someone wants to sell me their used one. :wink:

I believe a standard mudguard with struts is probably a very effective fork brace and more than adequate for a drum-braked model, but I am planning on fitting a fibreglass front guard on my bike and consider extra bracing will probably help. I am thinking of fabricating my own fork brace out of flat stainless steel sheet bent to fit and will model it on the existing centre mount for standard mudguards.

mike916sp said:

Ron L said:

I plan to use the Hyde brace on my cafe racer when I replace the Dunstall front end with a 12" full floating Brembo 4-pot. I'll try to use my 'glass JPN fender with it.

Click to expand...

Out of interest what master cylinder will you use with this setup - a Brembo one or an adapted Commando one and will that be a single or twin disk setup? Obviously my next question is will you make your own caliper mounting plates or can you buy them from somewhere and also what front disks will you use? Sounds like this should be an excellent brake setup

I'm asking as I've got some Goldlines knocking about under the bench in my garage that I could possibly use on my Mk 2A but didnt think it would be possible to fit them.

Click to expand...

Thanks to a fellow lister I was able to purchase a disk and adapter from CNW's supplier. I have never liked CNW's all chrome look, so I had a local machinist make up a few adapters from aluminum. As to the disc, a few measurements from the CNW disc provided the offset and a little searching turned up the correct model Japanese machine wearing these discs. Enter again my friendly machinist and an adapter plate was made.

I like gold caliper and disc center as some contrast. Especially with the black paint on the tank and sidecovers.

Here's the result on my 850 Interstate. It will look better soon, as I finally got around to ordering a set of stainless spokes.



I have a Brembo master from a 750 Ducati Monster (single disk) and a new Magura 13mm master, so I'll use one or the other on the cafe bike. The Interstate uses a sleeved stock cylinder because I didn't want to lose the stock switchgear.

I have since found a new set of Brembo hi-performance discs to fit the same machine at an abolute steal. I'm thinking of making a couple sets with a new caliper, the button head bolts and both adapters. It should be much less than the $1K that CNW asks. Of course, I don't think I'd bundle a master and line, as there are several choices there.

Ron,
How does the TT100 stand up to the better braking? I did a similar mod 12 years ago and the TT100 would let go. I now use modern rubber, she'll stand on her nose now. Got to keep turning the stanchions round to keep 'em straight :wink:
To get back on the Brace subject; look out for the very early RGM brace. It don't need any shims or spacers just bolt on.

I plan on changing the rubber to the new Avon AM26's when I finish lacing up the new wheels. The K81's aren't bad, I've been using them for 35 years (not the same pair!), but they don't grip like the AM22/23 Avons on my 900 SS bevel.

I suspect they might be part of the reason I lost the front end last Spring when I crunched up the Interstate. It was sudden with no warning.

The RGM brace is rare in the US. You mention the early type, did they change designs or stop making it?

Your brake looks very nice, Ron. I agree with your comments about excess chrome on the CNW version!

Debby