Fast or Slow

ludwig said:

Al-otment said:

acotrel said:

There is no excuse for speeding on public roads . These days the vehicle auction rooms have plenty of cheap crashed bikes that can easily be reworked for track days.......

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Hi Acotrel,

problem with track riding is you don't go anywhere, just round and round..

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+ 1
A did a few track days when I was much younger , but I prefer by far to ride in the mountains than chasing you own tail on a closed circuit ..

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Difficult to come down either side of the fence here - Ultimate thrills are always reserved for the track, where each corner can be honed to perfection, but people still get killed on track days :cry:
The biggest danger being the ability (and maturity) range of the people around you. I've also lost friends who went racing because riding on the road was felt to be too dangerous.

Not everyone rides a bike to get their knee down, and Commandos make great tourers, but my Combat didn't half make me smile last time out - surprisingly quick for an old dog.

The Proddy Racer is being built for the track as well as the road, so I'm looking forwards to getting my knee down on it (on the track, of course...) :twisted:

Apparently a sudden stop from 27 KPH is enough to kill. You don't have to be doing 200 KPH. Some people walk away from amazing crashes. You can take the attitude that every time you fall off a bike you could be killed - I don't think like that. It is all about tolerable risk, - if you stay in bed, you will probably die young. I don't ride on public roads because I want to keep my licence , and I can't get my head around some car drivers who have homicidal tendencies. Road racing is infinitely safer .

Particularly when there haybales in front of any obstacles .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M34QX5oqSM

I ride with no groups, rare exceptions. I once was, unknowingly in the beginning, part af a 75 mile parade of vintage bikes riding to Henry's Motorcycle shop in Kingsport, TN. The "Leader" had us doing 30 in 50 zones, 50 on limited access expressways posted 65. Old duffers in 6 cyl. Dodge Darts were blowing by us shaking their fist. Many of us refused to participate in that madness on the way back.
The hazards of parade speeds are huge, whether solo or in a group.

I've fallen off on the street and on the track, too manyl times. And now that I've compiled quite a bit of empirical data, I definitely have a preference.

I think Mick says it best here:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWHHEnZGw[/video]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... S._by_year

Kenny impressed me informing me at Barbers how he'd pogo'd off a peg to lift both tires off surface but just used knee to lift back up and carry on... I've done that at hi and low speed in public but it only crashed me on the slow poke/safer events. Every slow 15-35 mph big animal strike took me down with bike and body/bone injury but the deer strike on engine/R foot at 75 only took half a deer head out. I've watched dozens of deer impact video's and essentially all that hit deer going over 60 got shook up but didn't go down. If I'd not slowed for upper 80's to view rear inflation before flinging down on a rising sweeper the deer would of passed behind unknown, if I'd been going 55-60 limit I'd of T-boned 200 lb doe and likely be crippled permant or dead. Imagine my state of mind to ride after dark at least 80 mph in Mt. hwy so never hit from the side in surprise. Last take down couple weeks ago d/t dogs crisscrossing my path as i slowed below 20 mph one darted out of the ditch so I had to ease more onto center Gravel berm, which caused counter steering handling to twitch into straight steering on dragging both brakes SPAT. Didn't realize it cracked the bone of lower leg and ankle till the whole foot filled with blood so still limping from last mild tour w/o a thought to speed trills.

Would be informative if we had some stories of crash circumstances going fast or slow. I know 90% of mine have been while behaving perfect going straight ahead even with self talk to stay at low speed with easy brakes and mild maneuvering SPLAT.

The thing I like about Chryslers is that the standard Factory Race Chassis Kit , uses the Production front and rear frame rails ,
Ball Joints , Steering Knuckles etc etc . And the things have to run a intake restrictor to keep the speed down to 200 mph .



So in a well assembled car with a compatant driver familiar with the characteristics , 100 mph is at less than half of the
speed the chassis is competant to handle . The old 4.3 Litre Aussie Charger R/Ts did about 145 . But the chassis settings
can be altered to vastly improve the capeability , and modern tyres have progressed a way too .

But the Commando had better dynamics than anything short of a Ducati , in its capacity ( Cu In ) Class . Equal of a GT there .
SS is in a differant class . Two mugs who ended up with them found the Commando quicker & Faster . Stock 5 Speed both .

Generally the Old Army Convoy Driveing methods safest . Drive the Lane ( only deviations to avoid bumps , Oil Dumped on
Pacific Higway by anti motorcycle residents , or other impediments ) Maintain preferably four lengths gap ( Near impossable
with the obnoxious drivers these days ) and overtake with a clear view ahead only ( Liable to be all sorts of paint lines on
the road applicable to sight lines of CARS . Trucks and Motorcycles Visability make these often a foolish impediment .
A case of obeying the letter of the Law liable to cause hindrance or endangerment .
Opposite situation would be road & lane markings configured to be suitable to motorcycles , and other vehicals complying
to their dynamic capeabilities .
Minimum of a 308 Ferrari to match the Average 600 sports bike these days . Most cars are cheap crap . Pity they let
them on the road . The Average Norton Owners unlikely to scratch the Paint He's sweated labourously to reinstate . Or pay for.
Soomeone who has not spent contless hours getting familiar with their vehical is not likely to be as attached to it or as familiar
with its whilsts .

So Fast is Redline . If it wont do it theres something wrong with it . So when your happy that all is well to take it there ,
it pays to see its running properly occasionally . Like the BRAKES .If you havnt tryed them in ernest ,
an Emergency is hardly the time to evaluate their limits .

After reaching opperateing temperature , I wouldnt purchase a Vehical I hadnt seen both are to spec on .
If a wheel falls of , its the sellers degeneacy and hardly the sort of option youd pay for .

Riding beyond the speed limit safely isn't for everybody.

concours said:

I ride with no groups, rare exceptions. I once was, unknowingly in the beginning, part af a 75 mile parade of vintage bikes riding to Henry's Motorcycle shop in Kingsport, TN. The "Leader" had us doing 30 in 50 zones, 50 on limited access expressways posted 65. Old duffers in 6 cyl. Dodge Darts were blowing by us shaking their fist. Many of us refused to participate in that madness on the way back.
The hazards of parade speeds are huge, whether solo or in a group.

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Totally agree. I'm not a fan at all of the group ride out. I don't know why this feature of rallies, typically, is so popular. I've heard of more accidents during ride outs than I can think of solo riders coming to grief. You've got bikes of varying braking performance, riding too close together, bikes overshooting corners and some riders will be taking in the views as they go instead of concentrating on the road. A recipe for disaster.

Al-otment said:

concours said:

I ride with no groups, rare exceptions. I once was, unknowingly in the beginning, part af a 75 mile parade of vintage bikes riding to Henry's Motorcycle shop in Kingsport, TN. The "Leader" had us doing 30 in 50 zones, 50 on limited access expressways posted 65. Old duffers in 6 cyl. Dodge Darts were blowing by us shaking their fist. Many of us refused to participate in that madness on the way back.
The hazards of parade speeds are huge, whether solo or in a group.

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Totally agree. I'm not a fan at all of the group ride out. I don't know why this feature of rallies, typically, is so popular. I've heard of more accidents during ride outs than I can think of solo riders coming to grief. You've got bikes of varying braking performance, riding too close together, bikes overshooting corners and some riders will be taking in the views as they go instead of concentrating on the road. A recipe for disaster.

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+1
I was in a local bike club years ago, and on the occasions when we rode out the disparity in riding style quickly sorted itself out such that we generally all got to the same place at the same time. Despite the huge variations in bikes (mostly Jap fours), the fastest guys over a distance rode a Guzzi T3, a Norton Rotary and a bevel Ducati. A couple of guys had RG 500s and were quick, but kept to themselves and stayed on roads they knew (with no junctions and little traffic). We knew who was the best at leading a ride and who wasn't, and it was pretty obvious to everybody!
We used to do the odd charity ride out to a local Hospice or whatever, and on those occasions we were 'model motorcycling citizens' throughout, although I didn't enjoy them much as a ride they were only short, and for a good cause. Not sure it improved our image among the car driving fraternity though :roll:

I rarely go out with anyone else, and then only one or two close friends who are also old enough to know better, and have spent time on the track

ludwig said:

Mick should have taken his educational video on the IOM .
No need to phothoshop lethal obstacles .
No place to race ..:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sn ... _accidents

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Norton - the second deadliest bike at IOM :cry:

64 Yamaha
37 Norton
27 Honda
25 Suzuki
14 AJS
9 BSA
8 Kawasaki
5 Matchless
2 Ducati

... and 49 odd others

Track days are NOT cheap! £150 per day here in the UK, That's track fee's, fuel [track and getting there] tyre's .well a lad i know who goes "track daying" thats what it costs him.

ggryder said:

acotrel said:

There is no excuse for speeding on public roads . These days the vehicle auction rooms have plenty of cheap crashed bikes that can easily be reworked for track days, and a bike trailer is not very expensive. Most of you already have appropriate riding gear.

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Sometimes racers are heard to say, "I gave up riding on the street, it's too dangerous" or they just give you the impression that they'd be bored if the throttle wasn't always on the stop. I race but I still appreciate road riding. There's an element of adventure in riding an interesting road at a "brisk" pace that you won't find on a race track that you've lapped hundreds of times. So the excuse for speeding on public roads is that you're just riding at a pace that does the road some justice. My riding buddies convinced ourselves we weren't totally irresponsible: we might not ride at pace that would allow us to stop safely in the distance we could see ahead, but at least the resulting crash would be survivable.

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Track days are NOT cheap! £150 per day here in the UK, That's track fee's, fuel [track and getting there] tyre's .well a lad i know who goes "track daying" thats what it costs him.

ggryder said:

acotrel said:

There is no excuse for speeding on public roads . These days the vehicle auction rooms have plenty of cheap crashed bikes that can easily be reworked for track days, and a bike trailer is not very expensive. Most of you already have appropriate riding gear.

Click to expand...

Sometimes racers are heard to say, "I gave up riding on the street, it's too dangerous" or they just give you the impression that they'd be bored if the throttle wasn't always on the stop. I race but I still appreciate road riding. There's an element of adventure in riding an interesting road at a "brisk" pace that you won't find on a race track that you've lapped hundreds of times. So the excuse for speeding on public roads is that you're just riding at a pace that does the road some justice. My riding buddies convinced ourselves we weren't totally irresponsible: we might not ride at pace that would allow us to stop safely in the distance we could see ahead, but at least the resulting crash would be survivable.

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gortnipper said:

ludwig said:

Mick should have taken his educational video on the IOM .
No need to phothoshop lethal obstacles .
No place to race ..:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sn ... _accidents

Click to expand...

Norton - the second deadliest bike at IOM :cry:

64 Yamaha
37 Norton
27 Honda
25 Suzuki
14 AJS
9 BSA
8 Kawasaki
5 Matchless
2 Ducati

... and 49 odd others

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These Rudge Whitworths look dangerous , no wonder they stopped makeing them

NORTON , two fatalities in the last over 40 years . These modern things are more lethal .

You hardly ever see EH Holdens on the road these days . These Australians must be fairly poor now , Nobody can afford one . :mrgreen:

How much is the fine in the UK for doing 160 KPH on the M1 ?

160 is not so bad, do 161 and it becomes more interesting and could be a 3 month ban..... :roll:

Alan, we use miles, check it....

But the reality is....as long as you behave arund cameras, you never know which are on or off.....you gotta get noticed first....used to ride my Pan European (ST1100) up around there all day.....doing it on a sports bike would have been different.....

Last time I rode it to Snetterton race circuit, which is about 170 miles for me, it took 2 hours dead......and its not all motorway... :wink:

SteveA wrote;

about 170 miles for me, it took 2 hours dead

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So to answer the original posters question, that would make you a "fast" rider?

Reggie said:

SteveA wrote;

about 170 miles for me, it took 2 hours dead

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So to answer the original posters question, that would make you a "fast" rider?

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It really depends Reggie, I wanted to get there....quickly....

On a rented Harley riding up Kings Canyon in late May with the spray from the cascades on my face.....I probably didn't go over 40....

Touring in Europe, get there, then kick back in the mountains....but In Scotland....those roads draw it out of you....

But I also did a trip from our apartment here in Italy, crossing the Italian/Swiss border all day....7 mountain passes over 2000m including the Stelvio at 2700m and 600km (400M)...in the day out....some fast...some slow...and some stopped :lol:

However you choose to ride you don't have to do it all the time....but I have noticed I keep awake longer and stay fresher if I 'make progress' :wink:

Most recent Commando ride was lapping Cadwell Park, so it wasn't running at max torque often!

160 KPH? ,,,No fines!
to slow! 160 MPH :!: Dont even think about it.
quote="acotrel"]How much is the fine in the UK for doing 160 KPH on the M1 ?[/quote]

Boy SteveA are you setting an immature example to reflect on with a shit eating grin I'm also enjoying flashing on. To average 80's mph over 170 miles mean you got a ways over the ton a good part of the way.

Wes and I's favorite touring style is setting a pace in the opens we don't have to slow up much for the turns - in the milder hwy sections, usually 65-70 through 35-40 mph marked turns. Its enough to make us both work at holding back the hinging escalating - which I thought was only novice me having to concentrate/focus attention through muscle-nerve efforts, but after a stop Wes mentions he was having to work pretty hard too, over many miles of this way then that. Wes looks smooth as silk to me but I've ridden his drum brake '71 so know the grip force and knee squeezing going on. Not race risking or traffic dodging at all but still thrilling enough on non race cycles for just a joy ride to survive w/o ego or competition involved.

THE Gravel paths up-downs and arounds are crazy making because if going too slow wheel and crank gryos not helping restist the little skips outs on stones and steering is constantly passing in/out of the straight to countersteering threshold as surface texture and traction varies, which causes a twitch through frame that can snatch tires out from under w/o even trying. The steeper climbs must be taken at some slightly thrilling rates or loose control with rear spin or front ruddering into lumpy surface on just mild constant throttle. Going down some of em ya can't really slow much even on both brakes and engine drag as surface just gives way - so grit teeth trying not to speed up too much for the Sharp turn at bottoms with out the blue cattle to tractors or logging trucks possibly filling the path.

A mile form home there's a one lane bridge w/o rails 2 stories over big creek that is at bottom of loose steeps so inviting to just let bike roll down naturally but too often a truck with trailer suddenly turns the bend to fill bridge and see a cycler on the narrow path so does the worst thing - slows down taking their time to clear bridge, all the while pilot is gritting teeth to ass hole trying to slow from 30 mph and not just trip right out then slide-tumble under crushing tires. I've had this happen a number of times and so far got stopped in time above bridge but on edge of berm/ditch with ground level t00 far down on the slope even with a leg out the bike tips over so far no stopping the Clunk-Crunch-Clash save. Dogs downing couple weeks ago was apporaching this bridge and still kicking my self fear not to have just nailed throttle to fly pass the scared dogs before they could react or fly over them like I do time to time by tree falls seen too late to brake for, so freak out throtting over hoping not stabbed by a limb sticking up.

One night crossing this bridge into the climb out I was about to nail it when a black cow seen with butt in the way head facing fence, so I beepped expecting the cow to shuffle out the way as usual but instead was a BULL that instantly got pissed and swung around pawled gravel back w two steam jets out nose as muscles flexed about to charge me right off the bridge, freaked out I SNORTED WOT clutch in which started bull to hesitate and loose his footing so dropped clutch and shot past him before he regained his traction stance. I was maybe 5 mph on bridge to 20 mph past bull nose, so was i fast or slow? Felt like X-mass tree drag launch to me.