Electronic Ignitions

I have an older style Boyer on my Commando.
What would I gain by switching over now to something more advanced?
Can you all take a shot at educating me on the sparks and other ignitions advantages and costs over what I have now?
Significant improvement? How?
thanks

You'll get some personal opinion, and some documented facts here, depending on who replies, and how detailed thier reply.

MY OPINION - I like Sparx for value, ease of use, and durability / reliability.

FACT: Sparx and Boyer are virtually equal for price, performance & ease of use

FACT: Perhaps due to sheer numbers, Boyers have a distinct record of typical failures (I'd like to see verified statistics of PERCENTAGE of unit failures and/or service life comparisons)

FACT: Overwhelming recommendation for Nortons is the use of the Tri-Spark brand unit (higher priced, but good value)

The Tri-Spark has (arguably) the best design in setup, timing and anti-kickback features incorporated.

My opinion of the Sparx is based on approximately equal numbers of Sparx and Boyers installed, and direct first-hand experience over roughly equivalent time & miles traveled, and total time spend installing and timing them. This amounts to over 20 bikes, over 10 years.

Granpaul
You do not mention the fact that Boyer now do a 'micro digital' as well as their standard analogue 'MK3' model.
One or two in my local club rate the digital as a big improvment on the analogue, with better mapping, and better idling features, but I don't know much about it myself.
I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with this unit.
I have a standard Boyer analogue model and have no complaints so far....but only 3000 miles on since installation.

There is also now a Boyer Mk IV - http://www.boyerbransden.com/micromarkiv.html

As GP says, the MkIII faults are known because so many have been installed. These are principally a sensitivity to low voltage and poor signals from the pick up if everything is not A1. That these problems are most reported on Commandos indicates that a lot is to do with the isolastic movement.

With hindsight, the unit has not been as robust as the contemporary Lucas RITA but on the road, the differences were hard to detect and the early RITA was quite power-hungry.

The Boyer was an early system and as such, the Mk111 is the oldest design now marketed. It would be surprising if it had not been improved upon by now (although it's only in the last few years that this has occurred).

I hope that the Tri-Spark turns out to be reliable but in my eyes, it is still a little unproven. The Boyer must have been fitted to tens of thousands of Commandos over the last thirty-five years. This includes the period when many of the bikes were in daily use. My Boyer-equipped bike has had winters of salty roads and two-week long touring holidays with torrential rain every day, all without missing a beat.

You will also read criticism of the Boyer advance curve but for 95% of us, the thing has been a godsend. I see no reason to throw mine away to try something different but if it did need repalcement, I might well try something else, just out of curiosity.

I agree that the Tri-Spark is a nice looking unit and should be a bit easier to install since there is no black box to hide. But it is roughly twice the price and relatively new on the market. I have never heard a bad thing said about it but if it costs a lot it has to be good right?

If they were still available, I'd have ARD micro-electronic magnetos on ALL my bikes.

Has anyone done a survey of what ignition members are using? Like the one that tallied the ages.

Scooter

grandpaul said:

If they were still available, I'd have ARD micro-electronic magnetos on ALL my bikes.

Click to expand...

I can't believe someone hasn't reverse-engineered that yet.

swooshdave said:

grandpaul said:

If they were still available, I'd have ARD micro-electronic magnetos on ALL my bikes.

Click to expand...

I can't believe someone hasn't reverse-engineered that yet.

Click to expand...

I don't think the old guy that is ARD is willing to give up the ok to do that. I've heard some wacky stories about that dude.

79X100 those are my feelings exactly. Lots of miles with Boyers, lots of installations for others, very few failures. Same for the RITAs. At the cost of the new systems, (i.e. Tri-Spark) I'll wait and see how reliable they are compared to Boyer before I change for change sake.

grandpaul said:

If they were still available, I'd have ARD micro-electronic magnetos on ALL my bikes.

Click to expand...

magnetos are great when they are fitted in the correct place, most american mags ive seen are fitted on the timing cover

The ARD micro is only about an inch thicker than the points cover, with a very tiny "black box" that goes up by the coil.

No battery power required!

Coco said:

swooshdave said:

grandpaul said:

If they were still available, I'd have ARD micro-electronic magnetos on ALL my bikes.

Click to expand...

I can't believe someone hasn't reverse-engineered that yet.

Click to expand...

I don't think the old guy that is ARD is willing to give up the ok to do that. I've heard some wacky stories about that dude.

Click to expand...

I didn't say someone had to ask him. He's not willing to license the technology, from what I understand. So there's not much stopping someone from making it and selling them, worse that could happen is that he sues them, but I don't think he cares that much.

I've heard Skip VanLewen has purchased the ARD deal, I don't know if he is making them yet. I had two of them on a BSA Victor that I race, both failed, the first one was replaced free, when the second one failed he had quit making them so I was SOL. I'm not the only one with ARD failures, several people within the AHRMA group had them fail on singles and twins. They are a neat little ign. unit, I hope Skip solves the quality issues.

Ken G.

Ken, what failed on the ARD units you had?

It seems the generator is what failed. A friend with a B50MX went through two, another friend with Cheney Triumph had one fail, but his did last longer than all the rest.
I only installed the ones I used on my bike so I know it was'nt me.

I have been useing Interspan units on my two BSA's and they have been quite reliable, but they are for racing only as you have to charge them after every race.

I have a Boyer on my Norton, it's been on there for 20 years and has never given any troubles.


Ken G.

Nothing wrong with a Boyer "except" its inexact timing and its inability to fire at TDC to prevent kick back. There are others that look far better in all respects such as the Tri-Spark ( http://www.trispark.com.au/ ) for classic twins and the Sachse (C http://www.elektronik-sachse.de/index_en.htm ) which I am about to try in the next few week for real instead of on a bench. If you have special needs like a crank trigger, the choices are somewhat more limited (Sachse does it). I have found another one made in the Czech Republic ( http://ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm ) which has lots of features, but needs adapting for Nortons.

Jean

Don't forget the Pazon. Mine Surefire was an immediate improvement over my Boyer MkIII.

I did forget the Pazon intentionaly, on paper and in the flesh it looks better than a Boyer, but my buddy who fixes bikes for a living has had a couple fail, no problem many would say, it is guaranteed for 7 years, but he had to go pick up the customer's bike, bring it to his shop, replace the faulty unit and send the old one for replacement. Not a money making proposition.

As always, YMMV

Jean

Jean, you say a boyer cannot stop the kickstarer from kicking back?
I have had a boyer for 15 years and have never had a problem with this.
Perhaps you have the timing way too advanced on yours?