Can electronic ignitions do this?

A perfect example of good old technology

jseng1 said:

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Actually, even points can at 1 RPM Actually even at 1 revolution per day!

Tri-Spark will fire much slower than 100 rpm. (Bet the magneto will too).

When I were a lad, I stripped a Triton, I was stood chatting to a mate and idly fidgeting with the Lucas mag, I turned the spindle gently and BOOM I got zapped big time !

That was def less than 100rpm and it was def a big fuggin spark !!

I like mags.

Get zapped by the 4 rare earth Joe Hunts and you know it big time, been zapped by the older 2 rare earth JH and that wasn't nice at all, not game to try the newer JH, one of my JH maggie lead had dropped out of the front cove while riding and the bike was still firing with the spark jumping 2" to 3" or more from the cover to the dangling lead, very impressed, I could clearly see the spark jumping, man I love my Joe Hunt and works so well with the Amals, and I don't mind it sitting off the timing cover hanging in the breeze.
The only thing I have done to it in the 13+ years on my Norton is to remove the front cover every oil change to check the point and a few drops of STP on the felt to lube the point cam, haven't touched the point yet but have replaced the condenser and front cover from a right side lay down, the plug leads grinded off the cover from the slide, hence the new cover and flatten the condenser, I now have 2 new spare covers and 2 tune up kits in my spare cabinet just in case, by the way the lay down was a few days after I installed the JH (13 years ago), a car turned in front of me and had nowhere else to go but down.
I will take a pic of the old cover with the 2 leads grinded down in the cover when next up in the shed.

Ashley

Best thing I ever did to my A10 was fit a recon Mag

The Joe Hunts, Morris's mags are so much better than the old Lucas mags and so much easier to work on, more simple/compact and the new ones with the 4 rare earth magnets, after 48+ years of owning my Norton it's running the best it has ever ran since I put the JH on.
The only person I know who had troubles setting up a Joe Hunt was our old mate Norluck, just wouldn't listen or take advice from no one who knew what he was doing wrong, you just can't help some lol.

Ashley

What Greg said.

First kick starts are also possible with points and electronic ignition.

I wonder if my old K2F would spark spinning it by hand. I kind of doubt it.

Pushing a bike with EI that has failed is the same as pushing a bike with a magneto that fails. I've done both. It was easier with the magneto though. I was 50 years younger at the time.

"Pushing a bike with EI that has failed is the same as pushing a bike with a magneto that fails. I've done both. It was easier with the magneto though. I was 50 years younger at the time. "

Yeah...I've just discovered that I'm the same age as old people!

"All Things Are Possible"

I really loved my Joe Hunt rebuilt (by Hunt) mag on my '69 Bonnie. I used to bet people $100 it would start on the first kick, and NEVER had to pay out! That is, until the one time I forgot to tickle the carbs. I didn't mind because it was a good friend who was actually on hard times, and it changed his whole deal.

At almost $1000 (base price) for the Hunt magneto, I'll stick with my two kick Boyer.

Schwany said:

What Greg said.

First kick starts are also possible with points and electronic ignition.

I wonder if my old K2F would spark spinning it by hand. I kind of doubt it.

Pushing a bike with EI that has failed is the same as pushing a bike with a magneto that fails. I've done both. It was easier with the magneto though. I was 50 years younger at the time.

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A good working k2f will produce a big fat spark when turned by hand
If it doesn't there's something wrong with it

baz said:

A good working k2f will produce a big fat spark when turned by hand
If it doesn't there's something wrong with it

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OK

I'll have to try it later. It was rebuilt in the 70's and I used it into the late 80's before removing it.

cliffa said:

At almost $1000 (base price) for the Hunt magneto, I'll stick with my two kick Boyer.

Norton Twin (Cam Cover Style)

Joe Hunt Magnetos

www.huntmagnetos.com

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My "overhaul" (basically replace all but the case) cost $400 to Hunt mags back then...

I paid $720 for my Joe Hunt new and to be honest I would pay even more if I had too, it's not about starting on first kick that amazes me but the way my Norton runs now, from slow rpms to opening the throttle fully it just gets up and goes, this is the second British bike I have ran a Joe Hunt, my 81 Triumph Thunderbird was the same ran the best, it was an older JH that was rebuilt by my mate and brought it off him for the rebuild price of $400 (it was the older 2 rare earth magnets JH), it never let me down with over 200k km clocked up on it, so it proved its reliability to me how good they were.
Another mate runs an JH on his old hardtail Triumph for over 24 years now and also has had no problem with his, so all up I have 25 year's experience with running Joe Hunt magnetos on British bikes without problems, had 2 failed EI and also had problems with stock points set up on my Norton, not fun getting stuck 100 miles from home with a failed black EI box and then as well the failed batteries letting you down.
I have done a lot of travels in all sorts of weather but the JH keeps a going.
A pic of the JH on my Triumph and my mate's hardtail Triumph, by the way that's a young me and my red cattle dog Aussie.

Ashley

My Boyer will start my 850, if the motor turns over with the throttle closed. Why wouldn't it? I always start on idle with the enrichers closed and let it run until it slows slightly, then take the enrichers off. When the motor idles, the whole bike moved backwards and forwards due to the crank balance factor. It revs slow enough that I can watch the bike move and count the revs. They are usually about one per second.
The Joe Hunt magneto is too vulnerable for my liking. The crank in my motor has the extension for the rotor machined-off, in case I drop the bike on that side. Nobody builds a bike to crash it, however crashes happen. It is always nice to pick the bike-up and be able to ride it again immediately after a misadventure.

jseng1 said:

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Jim,... 2 questions.

1) Why don't magnetos have a spark timing advance? (and don't only say because they don't need one) Explain why

2) Why is spark timing so critical in other forms of ignition but not magnetos? Considering that the spark timing takes into account the speed at which a chosen fuel burns and the speed of the piston, Why can a magneto ignore these things?

The more you pay for something, the more you like it.

o0norton0o said:

Jim,... 2 questions.

1) Why don't magnetos have a spark timing advance? (and don't only say because they don't need one) Explain why

2) Why is spark timing so critical in other forms of ignition but not magnetos? Considering that the spark timing takes into account the speed at which a chosen fuel burns and the speed of the piston, Why can a magneto ignore these things?

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The Atlas style magneto behind the cylinders does have a mechanical advance so the ignition will be retarded when kickstarting for an easy start with no kickback. The Commando mag that mounts on the points cover does not have an automatic advance but there is a solution for this. Its a lever that retards the timing for starting. Once started you flip the lever and the timing stays fully advanced. The automatic retard of points ignition and Electronic ignition is for easy non-kick back starting. Once started your ignition may as well be fully advanced and you actually get more low end grunt if its fully advanced just above idle RPM. Racers simply don't seem to need retard for starting or don't care about it. Most of the time they're push starting or using a remote real wheel starter anyway. And many street riders seem to get along with fully advanced Commando style magnetos but I've gone to the trouble of providing a retard lever to enable easy non-kick back starting. Morris came out with this and I adapted their lever to the Joe Hunt because Morris doesn't provide a mag for the Commando. See the Commando retard lever below as it applies to the Mag that mounts on the points cover.

As Jim said the retard is for ease of kicking without any kick back but in 13+ years I have never had any kick back from a full advanced timed JH my Norton, the only time I have had any kick back is when first installing my Joe Hunt and setting the timing, I static the timing the same as setting any timing, points, EI and Joe hunt, if it does kick back when kicking I just slightly retard is ever so slightly till no kick back at all on the kicker when kicking it.
First kick of the day is always the biggest full kick but once my Norton fires up for the day it always a lazy kick and it always fires on 1/2 a swing on the kicker even sitting on the seat to kick it at full advance.
With 25 years of running Joe Hunt magnetos on my old Triumph and Norton without any retard I have never had any problems with kick back and to be honest I don't know why everyone makes a big fuss about no retard, if you set the timing right you won't get any kickback at all at full advance when kicking it, unless you get a big belly of fuel you might, but I never have had that problem.
But it seems to be set in everyone's mind you need to retard the timing to start, with that big spark they fire up easy without it and run perfect from go even at low RPMs.

Ashley