Disc brake upgrade for 850

ashman · Jul 5, 2013

The best thing I ever done was to replace the whole front brake for a system that works the way it should, life and safty is more important than my Norton looking orginal, I ride 6 to 7 days a week and the mount of car drivers that don't even take notice of motorcycles, I have had 2 crashes in the frist few weeks of my Norton being back on the road because of a front brake system that is old, very poor stopping power even with all the upgrades I did to it in the rebuild still not up to safe standard, I was lucky at the times it was low speed crashes, hate to think what might have happen at high speed and my front brake let me down.

After the second crash and with a frature left arm and broken thumb, I ordered a full Grimicia upgrade, 12" floating disc, Racing Grimicia caliper, Grimicia master cylinder and S/S brake line, this is not the best system on the market but for the money it brings my bike up to moden standards, one or 2 finger operation, I am very happy with this set up and it looks great on my Norton, looks better than the orginal set up, I have been riding my Norton for 37 years now and like to keep riding it for another 37 years.

Ashley

Corona850 · Jul 5, 2013

ashman said:
The best thing I ever done was to replace the whole front brake for a system that works the way it should, life and safty is more important than my Norton looking orginal, ....
Ashley

candyapplered said:
I've got the Andover Norton kit and found the hose too short, even with UK bars. Refitting the bundy pipe sorted it. ....

Yeah. It does require the short length of hard-pipe. It is too short to go directly to the caliper, but it is designed to be used with the brake line p/n 06-3899

candyapplered said:
... I've found the lever has lots of travel, although the brake can lock the front wheel, so I guess it 's pretty effective in improving the braking.

Well, I just (today) sold my Commando. I had a great front brake on it, using a Brembo caliper, floating disc and Andover Norton master cylinder.

I had it on eBay - twice - and got pitiful bids. It never made reserve - twice.

One guy tried to beat me down after the auction, and his argument was that the disc was un-original and detracted from the bike's collectibility. OK ... easy fix ... 5 nuts for the disc and 2 for the caliper and we're back to OEM front brake. It is a much worse brake than my Brembo set up, and, as you say, the Andover Norton master cylinder has lots of travel when used with the Lockheed caliper. But, back on eBay and the action was significantly increased.

Actually, I sold it via a Craigslist ad that was running simultaneously.

So, the lesson I learned is that the people buying Norton Commandos today do not agree (or know) that "life and safety is more important than looking original." Personally, I think that is a sad trend and commentary on who is buying Nortons, and why, these days.

pete.v · Jul 5, 2013

For me, the Commando is a "Riders" motorcycle. The fact that they are now so collectable is just a bonus.

I have had motorcycles all my life. Many years ago i purchased a ducati cause I could not get another Norton at the time and wanted wanted a bike to "Ride". Later, I sold the Ducati to fund the Norton purchase. My opinion is that nothing, new or old has the feel and ride of the Norton Commando.

Adding the nice RGM front brake kit is one of the many "enhancement" I have made to make this dream ride a safer one.

madass140 · Jul 5, 2013

"Adding the nice RGM front brake kit "
No brake disc adapter and no caliper adapter, thats what looks nice.

ashman · Jul 6, 2013

But how much does it cost, for what I brought through RGM costed me about $500 plus shipping and a few days to arrive, the adature plate looks good so no problems there, it all boils down to how much you got to spend and at the time Madass your system wasn't there to buy when I needed it, but I have no problems with what I have now and I still think the Grimica system look great.

Ashley

madass140 · Jul 6, 2013

$500? well for an extra $150 you get a lot more and still only a few days delivery.

jeffdavison · Jul 6, 2013

What would the cost be if the master cylinder was deleted (I already have a modified stocker) and the metal fender from your dual setup instead of the fender stay?

JD

madass140 said:
$500? well for an extra $150 you get a lot more and still only a few days delivery.

madass140 · Jul 6, 2013

$600. and NO I do not sell my mastercylinders for $50 on their own.

ashman · Jul 6, 2013

Madass your system looks great and if it was around when I needed it I would have spent the extra money but now because money is tight and what I have now is working great, I am not riding my Norton as much now since I brought my new Thruxton, you do put out some great work.

Ashley

mike996 · Jul 6, 2013

If you don't care about losing the stock look, the CNW brembo mastercylinder kit will make the oem disc brake stop like a modern machine. I have had oem, sleeved oem, and the Brembo. As noted, the sleeved oem is substantially better than stock but the brembo MC is an order of magnitude better than sleeved in feel and stopping power. Braking with the totally stock master cylinder is, as noted by a previous poster, more of a "slow-downer" than a stopper

OTOH, I STILL go back and forth, alternating between having the Brembo and the sleeved oem on the bike because I much prefer the oem look. A few months ago I AGAIN removed the Brembo and put the sleeved oem back on and decided to deal with the lesser braking ability. I have probably made this switch at least 5-6 times and it lasts until some scary brake-event motivates me to put the Brembo back on!

ashman · Jul 6, 2013

My Norton in not a Commando no more its been built in the Wideline Featherbed frame for over 30 years now, has a lot of work inside the motor and is very fast, so keeping my Norton orginal isn't to important to me, but safety is and having the braking working the way it should, I ride my Norton very hard, its been built for it, I like to get my speed down before the next tight corner but once in the corner I will put the power on, its the way the Featherbeds handle, but having the braking system to match the power is most important and the orginal system was no where near it, life is to short and I want to enjoy it for as long as I can and more so on my Norton.

Ashley

madass140 · Jul 6, 2013

some years ago I made adapter plates for the Brembo's, even for a member here.

JimC · Jul 7, 2013

mike996 said:
If you don't care about losing the stock look, the CNW brembo mastercylinder kit will make the oem disc brake stop like a modern machine. I have had oem, sleeved oem, and the Brembo. As noted, the sleeved oem is substantially better than stock but the brembo MC is an order of magnitude better than sleeved in feel and stopping power. Braking with the totally stock master cylinder is, as noted by a previous poster, more of a "slow-downer" than a stopper

OTOH, I STILL go back and forth, alternating between having the Brembo and the sleeved oem on the bike because I much prefer the oem look. A few months ago I AGAIN removed the Brembo and put the sleeved oem back on and decided to deal with the lesser braking ability. I have probably made this switch at least 5-6 times and it lasts until some scary brake-event motivates me to put the Brembo back on!

If you check the size of the caliper and master cylinder of each system I'm sure you'll find the closer the ratio is to 27:1 the better stopper you have. Brembo, Grimeca or OEM will not work well if the caliper to master cylinder ratio is wrong. IIRC, the ratio of the stock Norton disc is around is around 13:1, whereas a ratio of 27:1 is an optimum ratio. In other words the stock master cylinder is way too big to make enough force to clamp the stock caliper with enough force. It ain't the brand that stops, it's the size. Pads, disc size, lever ratio and caliper flex all account for brake performance too, but the single biggest factor is the ratio of caliper to master cylinder.

madass140 · Jul 7, 2013

yes I dont know why some say one mastercylinder is better than another, some minor internal differences and maybe
lever pivot changes may make some small changes but its piston size and its ratio.
for example my disc brake kit supplied with my mastercylinder gives a 25.33 Ratio. thats why it works so well.

mike996 · Jul 7, 2013

Can't argue with any of that re caliper/MC ratios; I don't know anything about it. But I DO know that the Brembo MC is a vast improvement in stopping power over a sleeved oem Norton. Based on the expert info provided, the Brembo must provide a better ratio than the sleeved Oem since the difference between them is dramatic. Perhaps there are "different" versions of sleeved oem. IOW, perhaps different "sleever" companies provide different internal diameter sleeves. So if that's true, then it would seem logical that an oem COULD work as well as the CNW Brembo. Mine certainly doesn't.

The front brake on my Commando with the Brembo (ss brake hose and Ferodo pads) feels/stops as well as my Ducatis did WHEN you consider the difference in tire size/stickiness. The Ducks had wider/stickier fronts and could do stoppies; the Commando with the oem-size 4.10 (Avon roadrunner) can lock the wheel but there's not enough traction to do stoppies (or "stop pies," as my computer keeps insisting)!

JimC · Jul 7, 2013

mike996 said:
Can't argue with any of that re caliper/MC ratios; I don't know anything about it. But I DO know that the Brembo MC is a vast improvement in stopping power over a sleeved oem Norton. Based on the expert info provided, the Brembo must provide a better ratio than the sleeved Oem since the difference between them is dramatic. Perhaps there are "different" versions of sleeved oem. IOW, perhaps different "sleever" companies provide different internal diameter sleeves. So if that's true, then it would seem logical that an oem COULD work as well as the CNW Brembo. Mine certainly doesn't.

The front brake on my Commando with the Brembo (ss brake hose and Ferodo pads) feels/stops as well as my Ducatis did WHEN you consider the difference in tire size/stickiness. The Ducks had wider/stickier fronts and could do stoppies; the Commando with the oem-size 4.10 (Avon roadrunner) can lock the wheel but there's not enough traction to do stoppies (or "stop pies," as my computer keeps insisting)!

If the only thing you were replacing in the braking system is the master cylinder, I'd say if the OEM is sleeved to the same diameter as the Brembo the performance difference would not be noticeable.