Degree Wheel

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kerinorton said:
Why bother. Blu tac, you might as we hold it with your hands. magnet, much the same.

I suppose you guys motors will turn over like a roller. Put a full glass of water on the head and not spill a drop. Oh and you wont have to rev it to keep it going. You got to be kidding.

If its not locked to the crank solidly, its not going to be accurate.

Have fun. I'm Laughing
Click to expand...

The object of the exercise is to use the degree disc and a piston stop with the plugs out to find TDC and check timing marks, nothing to do with a "running" timing test.
 
kerinorton said:
Why bother. Blu tac, you might as we hold it with your hands. magnet, much the same.


I suppose you guys motors will turn over like a roller. Put a full glass of water on the head and not spill a drop. Oh and you wont have to rev it to keep it going. You got to be kidding.

If its not locked to the crank solidly, its not going to be accurate.


Have fun. I'm Laughing
Click to expand...

I agree with that. You can't afford to have the degree disc flopping around while you are checking timings. I don't use a piston stop to find TDC. I use the soap bubble method with an old sparkplug with the centre electrode pulled out. Sometimes I need to do a complete record of the cam profiles in 5 degree steps, with a dial mike on the valve retainer. If the degree wheel moves it makes the task infinitely more difficult. As with all things related to performance, you need to control the variables.
 
I would remove the piston stop before rotating the engine with stock valves also. It might clear but better safe than sorry. jim
Most definitely remove it. I dinged an inlet valve and bruised the seat doing this. New valve and light cut not expensive but the hassle of stripping it all down.......
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Alrighty then taking best advisers to heart Most sure accurate way would be screw and glue wheel to its mark > while balancing crank at TDC precariously [an experience all serious Nortoneers should try along with center stand dancing w/o rug under] or hobot backwards way, shove pistons to BDC then put wheel on 180' opposite and get on with the tedious tasks. Other wise ya may be trusting instruments reading too much to brag about under +/-1 % error.
Time light similar on Nortons to me only good to put numbers on it after actual running timed just retarded off back fire starts.

Would be fun rally activity to have a test engine that needs its ignition system installed and left out with a timer to tap so bored folks in the mood could compare efficiency notes.
 
all you need is a large diameter washer each side of the hole in the degree disc, and a bolt through the middle - tighten it up. If there is enough thread inside the nut holding the rotor on you might be able to use that, otherwise make a new nut with a threaded extension, purely for timing purposes. I have a few tools like that, and I am continually losing them.
 
acotrel,

I agree and that would be my first choice. Problem is according to Old Britts the thread is 5/8" x 20tpi. As of right now I can't find one.
Plan "B" is to get a new rotor nut and weld a nut in the center. I want to be able to rotate the degree wheel so I can check the TDC mark on the rotor itself. Then I still have to deal with the accuracy of the timing marks on the plate inside the primary.
Will probably set timing at 30 degrees with degree wheel, bolt on primary cover and see where it sits. Then adjust timing with light accordingly. Probably overkill, but a good practical exercise,

Pete
 
kerinorton said:
Why bother. Blu tac, you might as we hold it with your hands. magnet, much the same.


I suppose you guys motors will turn over like a roller. Put a full glass of water on the head and not spill a drop. Oh and you wont have to rev it to keep it going. You got to be kidding.

If its not locked to the crank solidly, its not going to be accurate.


Have fun. I'm Laughing
Click to expand...

i agree 100% it has to be fixed to the crank if it is to be accurate
i drill 2 small holes in the alternator rotor to fit the timing disc onto , but you have to rotate the crank Always in the same direction to take up the slack of the woodruffkey ,and even then the valvespringpressure will do funny things
when building a new engine with an unknown quality of camshaft do not bother with what you read before,make a solid mounted wheel, no alternator in the way,because you will have to move the engine back and forth a million times
ludwig posted a nice one so you might want to do a search
 
I once had a woodruff key which was slack, the movement of the rotor cracked the end of the crankshaft.
 
lynxnsu,

That's probably like the one Hemmings used in his video. You could steer a bus with his. Engine is on bike and all together, I'm just trying to get my rotor marks correct so I can time it accurately with strobe. I can turn engine w/rear wheel so there is no pressure on degree wheel, double face tape would probably work. I'll do it right and mount it with rotor nut, set it and forget it. It's a street bike w/ a Boyer analog. My understanding is the advance on that unit is sketchy anyway, the system is only as good as the weakest link. Ultimately that might be me.

Pete
 
Good to help future owners by permanent marking which magnet rotor cast in marks is the correct one and help current owner in future by knife edge marks on Stator at 0'-TDC and 30' plus 32" & 28' either side of 30' for spot on initial time mark to use so only need to screw bolt glue and weld a degree wheel on once per engine unless crank degree profiling a cam. Put correction marks or cover note on factory dial if found off scale or missing in action, which after Peels got wiped off I prefer open view w/o it in the way.
 
hobot,is your english from another planet or has the language changed from when i learned it ?it don't understand one iota of your ,without any doubt,very thought over comments.and no , english is not my native language
 
OK, Norton factory case dials can be off a handful degree's so you should determine if yous is or not. I found it better w/o factory dial in the view so mark zero=TDC going by the magnet rotor's correct cast in mark by knife edge on the stator resin and another cut mark at 30' BTDC. Except for very special engines one only needs to mark either 28" for Combats or 32' for all other engines. Peel has special engine so marked her's at 30' for starting point of how much above or below that she liked best. All our engines should start and run decent with 30' advance so safe bet to start at then diddle up/down for best action, then mark where time light ends up. Once timed right and stator marked you should never need to use a degree wheel again unless changing something major inside engine. Pushing pistons to bottom is more easy accurate that reading degree's between piston stop turns. Nothing proves true TDC better than balancing them at top with 80+ PSI air fed into the sealed chamber. All good Nortoneers can time them single handed, one half on throttle the other half holding time light while leaned way over head down not falling down nor fouling wires on hot headers. It would be good entertainment to video such fairly common ritual. Decent supermagnet held plenty firmly for my fumbles and much easier to shift wheel than source and rig up a bolt on crank adapter. if you doubt your skill to avoid hard fumbles then better bolt wheel on temporary as most do.
 
Hobot,

Thanks. I think the approach I am going to take is find TDC w/ Degree wheel, rotate engine to 30 degrees BTC, carefully remove the wheel, install primary cover and note where factory mark on rotor lines up with plate and call that my "new" 30 degrees. Hopefully I will write it down somewhere where I can find it later. Lately I have been putting P-Tex labels on things. That will be a spring project when I clean my clutch plates.

Pete
 
The Only reason to mark at 30' is if you engine is rather different than a 28' Combat or 32' everything else, so if not an unusual engine combo then measure-place time mark spot on for you model, otherwise you may land in hobot camp that goes by braille in the dark to land on best initial timing then turn on light to mark it. How ever you find TDC I'd suggest shoving pistons to bottom and see if stops wheel at 180' to double check. As most engine are not singles or 360' twins you will not find this procedure anywhere so may sound like I'm missleading ya. Hope your factory dial is spot on but in my cases it was either skewed or removed by a crank or clucth nut or belt come loose on fhe fly.
 
Needing,
Thanks, pretty much what I had in mind. I wound up buying an all brass stop with a bleed hole down the center figuring I wouldn't have to fight any engine compression, plus I could probably drill it out a little more for a dial indicator or rod if need be. $12.00 free shipping on Amazon.

I like the rubber hose idea, I guess it holds the wheel solid?

Why do you have a 10 degree difference between indicated and actual 28 degrees BTC, shouldn't be that far off from factory? or am I missing something?

On another note. I looked at the wiring diagram you posted. Very well thought out. I like the timed relays and the main power off relay. I am considering putting a delayed one on my Gold Wing to stop the headlight from coming on during start up.

Pete
 
needing said:
The rear face of the rotor has scriber type marks with A or B next to them that may be relevant to Norton Commandos.
Click to expand...

The "A" and "B" timing marks on the reverse side of the rotor are for BSA and Triumph triples.
 
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