Dave Taylor Headsteady

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I found the spine info here:

http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

And, as it happens, I have one each English frame and Italian frame sitting in the shop right now. I'll have to measure the small tubes and see if there's any difference. From the article, however, it sounds like the difference would not be enough to account for the clamp being loose (one inch vs 25 mm).

Debby
 
Thanks for the link Debby. I did print a copy of the page off some time ago intending to send Dave Comeau my frame details. The dimensions info has only been more recently added though - Well spotted !

Does your Italian frame actually measure 60mm ? I should imagine that a difference of 3mm or 1/8" can almost be seen with the naked eye.

I'm going to make a real nuisance of myself at Norton meetings in the future as I tell owners, vernier in hand, that they've got a Verlicchi ! :D

Weird, isn't it ? If we were talking about Ducatis it would be considered a plus point.
 
Really appreciate all the input. Unfortunately, I'm just getting back here and didn't get a chance to read the posts until it was too late to go measure the bike (in my shop a couple miles away).

Debby, I think you are correct, for reasons stated below. Good call. Again, once I measure I'll know for sure. Coco.... do like the idea of using rubber for shims... perhaps especially appropriate in a head-steady application? Cash, WILL let the supplier know. (He's a bit of a terse fellow, might give him heart palpitations), LAB and 79x100, measurements forthcoming.

In October of 2003 the UK zine Classic Bike ran what I thought at the time was an excellent article on the Commando. In fact, the specific bike they featured made such a visual impact on me that I credit it with my now owning one myself. Here's what the author said about the frames:

"The quality of frames can vary, the Italian built examples fitted to some 850s being particularly suspect. Italian 850 frame numbers all began with F1 and supply began from number 306086. Les [Les Emery of Norvil] believes they stopped in mid-1974. Perversely some 850s from number 30003 were among the best handling machines, while Les believes some of the worst were in the 20000 series from late 1971. 'So if you are going for an 850 get a MKIA onwards, or for a 750 get an early one.'"

Apart from Mr. Emery's (debatable or not?) beliefs in the ideal Commando frames, the author's assertion that "Italian built examples fitted to some 850s being particularly suspect" comment is not cause for celebration, apparently. Exactly why are they suspect, for example? My frame number, F104296, puts me somewhere between Vin #309911 and #313761 (thanks to Debby's atlanticgreen.com link). To further complicate, I don't know the actual VIN # of my frame because someone down the bike's ownership history put on a fake I.D. tag and sold it to me as a 750 package. But it does appear that perhaps Debbie is correct in my version being of Italian make.

I'll try and get the measurement tomorrow. Again, really appreciate the help and input, per usual.

wrench
 
Unfortunately I do not have a caliper to arrive at an exact measurement, but it appears the lower tube is very close to 7/8 inch. Not sure what that would translate to in metric. I'll plan on buying a caliper soon and get a good reading. In the meantime, looks like I stuck shimming the device and going from there.

Cheers--

wrench
 
My frame number is 334159 for a MKIII frame. Measurement of the tube in question on my frame is 1.006"
 
do like the idea of using rubber for shims... perhaps especially appropriate in a head-steady application?

That clamp-on upper mount is what has stopped me from buying one of the Taylor head steadies. I like the design Mike Taglieri used in making his, although I am concerned about the amount of space it takes.http://community.webshots.com/user/miketnyc I like the idea of using the threaded boss in the frame for the upper anchor.
 
Wrench, I'm even more puzzled now. Have you been able to measure the top spine tube ?

1" is so close to 25 mm that a coat of paint could swing it either way but 7/8" sounds distinctly undersize. If we discount repair or that Reynolds would have used undersize tube, does this mean that the Italians had some 22mm pipe lying around ?

Ron, the Taylor clamp on my Mk111 grips really nicely and does give the potential for adjustment which is useful because erm, er, I don't really like to say this but perhaps not all Commando frame and engine set-ups are exactly dimensionally identical :D
 
79x100 said:
Does your Italian frame actually measure 60mm ? I should imagine that a difference of 3mm or 1/8" can almost be seen with the naked eye.

Yes, it really is 60 mm. If I put the frames side by side I can see the difference, but it's not really that obvious.

That small tube, that the headsteady clamps to, is only about .010" smaller in diameter on my Italian frame (makes sense - 1 inch vs 25 mm). An extra coat of paint could probably make that up.

Debby
 
My own 850 Mk III frame spine tube is 2.1/4", the small tube is 1".

My bike's frame number (33419*) being quite close to Coco's frame number (334159).
 
L.A.B. said:
My own 850 Mk III frame spine tube is 2.1/4", the small tube is 1".

My bike's frame number (33419*) being quite close to Coco's frame number (334159).

:D Sounds like you've got a Reynolds one then L.A.B. Congratulations that man !

Dave Comeau is intending to include tube diameter info on his next update. It would be interesting if we could all tell him what we've got to give as broad a picture as possible.
 
79x100 said:
Sounds like you've got a Reynolds one then L.A.B. Congratulations that man !

The factory may well have only been using Reynolds sourced frames by this time (my plate date = 7/75) as (again according to the info from the dd website info) the F1***** frame numbers had been dispensed with during early 1975 being replaced with a number matching the VIN plate, although I've no idea if this was why the F1- numbering system was dropped?
But as Les Emery told me sometime ago that the F1- numbered frames were the Italian ones (as we have discussed here previously) but I'm still not sure if that information is 100% accurate?
 
Based on Dave Comeau's findings, if all the Italian frames were indeed made out of 60mm rainwater pipe then perhaps we can make some sense of what was made where. :)

I still have the headstock from my 4/75 F125 frame but it was so badly pranged that I'm having trouble finding two equal places to take measurements from. it seems to be 60mm though :(
 
79x100 said:
Wrench, I'm even more puzzled now. Have you been able to measure the top spine tube ?

1" is so close to 25 mm that a coat of paint could swing it either way but 7/8" sounds distinctly undersize. If we discount repair or that Reynolds would have used undersize tube, does this mean that the Italians had some 22mm pipe lying around ?

79x100--

I'll try and purchase a caliper today to get a more precise measurement. I may be off quite a bit... I'll also try and measure the top spine tube. If my frame is made of Italian rain water pipe, well, then.... hmmm. Can I still call my Norton a bad-ass machine?

wrench
 
wrench said:
If my frame is made of Italian rain water pipe, well, then.... hmmm. Can I still call my Norton a bad-ass machine?

wrench

Sure you can! It just has some Italian blood, that's all. If anything, it makes the bike even more sporty! The Italians are good at that sort of thing you know :D

Debby
 
79x100 said:
L.A.B. said:
My own 850 Mk III frame spine tube is 2.1/4", the small tube is 1".

My bike's frame number (33419*) being quite close to Coco's frame number (334159).

:D Sounds like you've got a Reynolds one then L.A.B. Congratulations that man !

Dave Comeau is intending to include tube diameter info on his next update. It would be interesting if we could all tell him what we've got to give as broad a picture as possible.

I wonder if mine is a Reynolds frame as well since mine and L.A.B.'s numbers are so close. Mine was also manufactured in 7/75.
 
Coco said:
I wonder if mine is a Reynolds frame as well since mine and L.A.B.'s numbers are so close. Mine was also manufactured in 7/75.

So, does your spine tube measure up as a British 2.1/4 inches (58mm) or an Italian 60mm diameter? Allow for a little variation due to paint thickness.
 
Coco said:
I wonder if mine is a Reynolds frame as well since mine and L.A.B.'s numbers are so close. Mine was also manufactured in 7/75.

Coco, I think you're making assumptions and this is the NVT of 1975 that we're talking about. The frames could have been made at any time. All we can be fairly certain of is that the numbers were stamped on around the same time :)

Debby, is your 750 frame stamped with an "F" number ? My brother in law has just checked his MkV 750 and it has a 60mm top tube and no visible stamping. The funny thing is that he's currently putting his 900SS Ducati motor in a Baines Racing chassis so he's trying to come to terms with having an English framed Ducati and an Italian framed Norton. It's a funny old world, isn't it ? :)
 
79x100 said:
Coco, I think you're making assumptions and this is the NVT of 1975 that we're talking about. The frames could have been made at any time.

Possibly?
Although due to the financial situation of the company I don't see them having a massive stockpile of frames, or of anything else at that time?
And I am sure the Reynolds Co. would have been aware of this and may only have supplied a new batch of frames when the last lot had been paid for?

But who knows?
We'll see what dimensions Coco comes up with?

Or anyone else who cares to give their own Commando's spine tube diameter of course? (including the first few digits of the frame number if possible?)
 
79x100 said:
Debby, is your 750 frame stamped with an "F" number ? My brother in law has just checked his MkV 750 and it has a 60mm top tube and no visible stamping. The funny thing is that he's currently putting his 900SS Ducati motor in a Baines Racing chassis so he's trying to come to terms with having an English framed Ducati and an Italian framed Norton. It's a funny old world, isn't it ? :)

No, there are no visible stampings on either of these frames. No ID plate either. I still don't know if the Italian frame is an 850 or 750 version. The guy I got the Italian frame from said the guy he bought it from told him it was an NOS factory replacement 850 frame. But that guy was kind of a BS artist so who knows.

Pretty funny about your brother-in-law's bikes!

Debby
 
debby said:
wrench said:
If my frame is made of Italian rain water pipe, well, then.... hmmm. Can I still call my Norton a bad-ass machine?

wrench

Sure you can! It just has some Italian blood, that's all. If anything, it makes the bike even more sporty! The Italians are good at that sort of thing you know :D

Debby

Whew! Glad to hear it! As to the Italian bikes being sporty, yes. I've got a 74 Ducati 750 waiting to be restored next, so I'll be learning a bit about their machines in the next year or so.

Finally measured the frame with a a caliper. Taught me a good lesson in obtaining the right tools.... I was way off. My spine tube measures exactly 60mm and the lower measures 25mm. The Taylor mounting bracket bore measures exactly 1" when fully clamped. This doesn't make sense to me... why wouldn't it be slightly smaller than that even if it was clamping onto a one inch pipe? Why not bore it at 23mm, for example, and thus accommodate us minority Italian-made frame folk? Maybe cash is right in his earlier post? --that maybe they bore a batch of the head-steadies too big? I'm obviously no machinist, but I assume in order to clamp a bracket firmly on to a one inch pipe, one would make the bore slightly smaller than one inch.

numerically challenged wrench
 
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