Commando Motors

Christulin, you said in your second post that the motor had been sent away two years ago, but now you are saying that it has never been apart, which of the two statements is correct?

Sorry for the confusion, Dave. The first time the motor had been taken apart was after it cratered with only about 14,000 miles on it. The bits were taken to a rebuilder over two years ago and we are still trying to get them back.
I usually strip down motors on old bikes I get and am never surprised when I find something amiss. Either something was done poorly at the factory or a previous owner had neglected it. My "newest" bike is an '84 Laverda which should be okay without an engine rebuild but I still spent the winter stripping everything else. Except for my own Norton, I have stripped the motors on most of my bikes for peace of mind. Even previously "professionally rebuilt" motors may have problems (been there and done that). My own Commando runs fine, has good compression and the oil is clear of metal bits when I change it. I still plan to strip it after I get my friend's Commando fixed. I don't push it hard, though. I have a Triumph motor on my workbench now and my friend's bike and parts are taking up space. Too many projects and not enough time...
No doubt, decades of unknown maintenance, abuse and repairs on any bike often means trouble. British bikes were often troublesome even when new. Our lives depend on these machines working well when we ride them.

Commando engines are essentially the same from first to last; you can mount any year engine in any year bike.

Physical dimensions are all the same as far as engine & exhaust mounting points, drive chain alignment, and clearance to adjacent structures.

christulin said:

. British bikes were often troublesome even when new. Our lives depend on these machines working well when we ride them.

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I had a 1950 BSA B33 that was a real rat and it ran fine. The Norton was relatively new to me and it never let me down despite my lack of care, other than changing the fluids and piecing together what I had to. But then in the early 60/70's what was the choice. Z1? I don't think so and I tried one.

Dave
69S

concours said:

christulin said:

Thanks all. I'm in the BMAC and Norton Colorado Club. I may see some of you in Wyoming next month. Fortunately, it is my friend's checkbook, but I volunteered to do the wrenching. I had been storing the bike for my friend and I was riding his bike when the motor seized. I pulled the motor in my garage and it looked like a grenade had gone off. The cases were wrecked, the cranshaft bent, one con rod bent and broken, bottom of barrels broken. The only undamaged part was one of the con rod nuts that was lying in the bottom of the cases. The poor guy bought the bike from Randy Baxter for about 5k and has given Greg Isles about 4k up front.

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Any knocking/rapping before it ground to a halt?

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Sounds like the big ends seized from the damage you're describing.

Oh, I see now. I would persevere with trying to get back whatever parts you gave to the engine guy, even just the cylinder head will save a fair bit if you are replacing components sourced from the web and elsewhere. I think your best bet is to source the parts piecemeal. I have seen Norton complete bottom ends for sale for reasonable money, then you would need a barrel and hopefully the existing head. Things like pistons, big end and main bearings, you would want to replace anyway. Good luck with this.

Thanks for all the comments.
I'm going to go back to fixing up my own bike(s) and riding. It's summer here and time to have some fun.

Building an engine from scratch is by far more expensive than buying a complete lump and overhauling it; even with fantastic deals on many parts from this forum, britbikes.com and swap meets, it still cost more than buying a complete engine for $1,000 which they typically fetch if in decent shape.

I had the highest hope when I tried it the first time; then with an even cheaper starting cost the second time, I figured FOR SURE I could do it. Nope, nearly the same result.

The other thing is trusting an engine or bottom end without actually opening it up and inspecting it. DON'T.

There are just too many tiny parts that quickly add up to a lot of money.

Like everyone else, Ive learned the lesson: it is cheaper to buy it nice than to make it nice.
The problem is you had better know who made it nice.

grandpaul said:

Commando engines are essentially the same from first to last; you can mount any year engine in any year bike.

Physical dimensions are all the same as far as engine & exhaust mounting points, drive chain alignment, and clearance to adjacent structures.

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Except MkIII.

If the big ends go then finding a untouched nut in the sump seems not to be a rare occurrence, the hammering of the con rod on the crank loosens the nut despite it being properly torqued. It would not happen from a seizure as you do not get the hammering.

If'n was me I'd call Baxter's, Old Brits and others world wide and tell em what ya want and what they can do $$ wise for ya, while &/or shopping ebay and our own classifies here. Cases can be pretty cracked up by rod caps and other stuff punching them out and still be recovered even better than new to racer level toughness. Powerful desirable motorcycles are never an economy hobby and why its not so worth noticing when one does come together in the end, while it lasts.

I've had a handful of engine disasters none of them my fault but I didn't open up a perfectly running engine 1st or know I needed a rev limiter on my first ever unexpected Amal stuck up event on a highly spent on newish fully tessed 7000 mile old Combat engine. Part of the dilemma you will run into is judging what to keep as is or spending about as much or more to get it right now while in hand easiest cheapest its ever gonna be but delays project as funds lacking till later...

A fully Fettered economical Commando is such a mythical creature to aspire too. I had to come to grips with how many week ends i may have left to take some money hits with wife contests to have a chance as some fantasy times now and then my soul feeds on 24/7 between gaps in our real life affairs. Besides them vendors and Nortoneer machinists need their living needs too.

No luck with Baxter's, Colorado Norton Works, etc. Found some amazingly expensive parts, though. One new cylinder head would set me back half what I payed for my complete running Commando, or the equivalent of 200 pizzas. Or 1500 beers.

I don't know if I fully agree with not piecing one together.
I have done a few this way, and have come in well under $1000 for the parts.
Either way you will need main bearings, gaskets, seals, cam chain, bushings, pistons, rings, valves and guides.

Careful shopping nets great results.
I just scored a Combat head complete shipped for $125,
I have gotten combat cases shipped for $150, a crank for $100, rods for $50 and a barrel with lifters for $75.
Cam drive bits for $25, cam for $50, pushrods for $25, timing cover $50, oil pump $25
You can usually find lots of engine hardware cheaply.

That's $675 for all the big bits, and if you price the new bits needed at about $500.
So for $1175 you have all the parts for a rebuilt engine, just add your labor.

I watch ebay daily and these things come up at these prices fairly often, I usually buy them when they do.

Your individual results may vary.

You must be a good shopper.

It's an obsession. Plus I buy and sell to fund the hobby.

You could go all out and start with this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-Commando ... ca&vxp=mtr

Brett, just looked at the crankcases. What we need is organization and an agenda, the capability is mind boggling. Prices often depend on volume made of particular items. If you think about what is available in terms of the Norton Monocoque project, we must be able to achieve having some really good fun.

There are so many tasty bits out there. A really killer bike can be built.
But as with everything the cost will be high. But it would be a functional piece of art.

Unfortunately at my level I need to work at lowest cost parts using my skills as much as possible.
It's all about recycling in my life.

I'm with Bwolfie n this, I bought a complete bottom end for less than $200 a while ago, and a barrell for $150. It is a given that you will have to dismantle and rebuild whatever you acquire. My observation is that to buy a complete bottom end is typically much cheaper than to buy cases, crank, con-rods, timing gear etc separately. There are people making a living from stripping bikes and selling each part, the guys selling a bottom end, for example, are probably clearing some stuff our rather than treating it as a business.

Those new 850 cases look beautiful and are probably better than new, plus could add electric start (I have a bike with one of those new-fangled things).