Cock-eyed kickstart pawl dragging on 1st gear?

I'm completing my gearbox rebuild. But as I spin it by hand, the kickstart pawl (in it's retracted "parked" position) is dragging on the coresponding engagement teeth inside 1st gear. It appears to be caused by a combination of 2 conditions:
1. the hole in the pawl is a lot larger than the diameter of the pin that retains it, and ...
2. the steel retracting plate riveted into the inner cover only grabs the outboard corner of the pawl (by design).
This seems to permit the pawl to sit cock-eyed, permitting its inboard corner to catch the teeth on the inside of 1st gear.

Of course I'll replace the pawl & pin, but unfortunatly they do not look appreciably worn. It looks more like a design problem to me! Is this a known issue? Are there known fixes like adding a washer on the side of the pawl to restrict its ability to wobble (or sleeving the pawl)?
Thank you so much for your help, Jim P. Detroit 1974 850 Commando

Sounds like the hole the pawl fits into is too large allowing the extra movement, can it be welded and then redrilled, you may need a new kickstart shaft.

Hi there , it happens to me too last week , when rebuilding my G15 gearbox with new internals , and one new pawl , I will try to explain : the width of the hammer (the horizontal part of that TEE), was to large of few thou, fortunatly I had another spare one , which was better made and fit rightaway, I had bought them from the same shop.......as I kept every thing , even old parts, i had noticed different style of pawl pins, e-g different diameter and some had an abutment at the end, some don't...
Kwality as said BDM (missing this one), in another forum. Pierre

Very interesting!
The hole in the k/s shaft for the pin is .188" (4.77mm) dia, but the hole in the pawl is .216" (5.48mm). So unless I weld or sleeve the pawl, I can't hope to reduce the nearly .030" (.76mm) clearance.
Additionally, I noticed the pin itself is not intended to bear the load of starting the engine. It appears that the pawl is allowed to float so that it can rest directly on the "shoulders" machined into the k/s shaft during start-up.
So I suppose if I make the pin fit too precisely, I'm liable to shear it off!

JimP,

I suggest you get some new genuine parts (supplied in the sealed Norton packs) and see how they compare with what you've got, as there were a lot of substandard pattern pawls about at one time.

The later genuine pawls used to have a chemically blackened finish with a stamped letter on them? I'm not sure if they still do?

I think that the problem here is the side float on the pawl. Clearance between the pawl and the slot in the kickstart shaft should be quite small. Certainly not a gap where shims (posh word for washer !) could be added.

I have two pawls here. Both measure .370" and the slot .386" They are both a rattling fit on the pins so that seems normal and the spring pressure does kick the pawl slightly out of square as it is not central but not enough that I could imagine it causing the pawl to contact the gear.

All, thank you for your interest. You are very helpful to me. Yes, my pawl is .369" wide, and the slot is .385" (.016" clearance). It wobbles like crazy, but apparently that is normal!
I think I'll get a new pawl & pin and see if production variability works in my favor. My pawl is stamped with an "M", but it does not have a black finish on it.

JimP said:

My pawl is stamped with an "M", but it does not have a black finish on it.

Click to expand...

I think I might have overstated the black finish a little?
The later genuine type I bought some while ago had a darker finish than the one I removed if I remember correctly?
The 'M' marking does suggest your pawl is original. Although the letter marking was different on the one I bought, I think it could have been R or T? I don't remember exactly, I just remember it was a different letter, it was definitely an original part. http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/062015.htm

If the riveted-in ratchet pawl plates are worn, they can be replaced if you can find new items?
Norvil sell at least one, or maybe they have them both?: http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/040042.htm

Follow up: Cock-eyed kickstart pawl not fully retracting

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.
I bought new k/s pawl and pin. The dragging problem is corrected. I guess the parts were a little more worn than they looked.

At any rate, I'm back in business again! Jim P.