Kickstart pawl dimensions

Hey there,

I've been having an absolute blast so far this spring and summer riding, exploring and commuting daily on my 72 Norton Commando Roadster. Early in the riding season I noticed that I would occasionally have an issue with kickstart engagement. I might give a mighty kick and the lever would just fly on through without turning the engine over, sometimes giving me a bit of a knee ache, and sometimes just making me look like a dummy . This started out being a pretty rare thing, but it gradually increased in frequency until a couple of nights ago I went for a ride to a hardware store and on the way out the kickstarter would pretty much not engage at all, to the point that a woman drove up to me and kindly asked if there was anything that she could do to help. I laughed awkwardly and thanked her as my mortification levels increased with a growing awareness of other concerned citizens watching with worried expressions from various positions around the lot. I considered asking her for a push (I'm kidding), but instead assured her that I would get the engine to run and with that I rolled the bike along the parking lot, successfully bump-started her up, thanked God and got the heck out of there.

I'm guessing that I have a worn out kickstart pawl and have since put in an order with my favourite parts supplier. Unfortunately they don't have any at the moment, and they have no estimated time of arrival for more. I imagine that this is a part that I could probably make in the shed without too much trouble eh? Does anyone happen to have the dimensions for it, or any other suggestions?

Also I haven't had the gearbox apart on this bike so far, but getting into the kickstart pawl area doesn't look like it will be too hard will it?

Any thoughts and/or advice would be most welcome.

Thanks!!

J

Both inner and outer cover need to come off, there was a change to the pawl to a harder material sometime during production and the harder ones have a M on the side. If its worn then there will be a short unworn section, weld the worn section and dress to match the unworn section for a short term fix until new ones can be found.

Thanks Kommando! Very useful info. I'm assuming I can remove the inner and outer covers without completely removing the gearbox from the bike. Hopefully this is the case!

Yes, the shell can stay in place and the 2 shafts and even all the gears.

You will need Whitworth wrenches/socket set to open up the gearbox to the pawl. open ended wrench for one nut that is very tight fit. (i.e. a socket will not fit in to get to it.
You have available: BCS in Nova Scotia, Walridge Motors in Ontario or Motorparts inc.com in Alberta you could try that is if you want to stay in country. Andover Norton will sell direct.
Cheers,
Tom

Special tool to remove the clutch release to access the main shaft nut is useful.
Should also mark the location of the lever for proper alignment on reassembly.
Clutch release #35 Group 9 of the parts book.

Thanks all!

Will I need to remove the main shaft nut for this operation?

Yes, to remove the innercover to access the kicker shaft.

As well looking at a worn KS pawl also look at the KS gear that the pawl sits in as sometimes the inner gear is also worn with rounded edges which does not help with the pawl gripping the gear and will also cause it to slip and not grab.

Ashley

Hi all,

I was able to acquire a kickstart pawl after, and I had some time this evening to face the more challenging steps involved with removing the inner gearbox case. I was able to remove all of the nuts without any issue, and I made a tool to remove the clutch operating lever body, which worked great. I was able to remove the main shaft nut without any problems using a healthy dose of leverage.

The inner cover is now ready to come off, however, because the gearbox is still on the bike I have no room to hit it properly with a rubber mallet. I can kind of get at one corner of it, but I'm not able to smack it away from the rest of the gearbox as required. I've tried just hauling on it with my bare hands (not working), and I tried putting a narrow piece of wood against the back of it so I could tap that with the mallet, but there is really no room to use this method either. The wood just ends up slipping uselessly downward every time.

Anyone have any advice on how I might get this thing to start separating? Thanks!!

I was able to get a wooden dowel below the left side of the cradle and above the right side behind the gearbox and grab enough of the inner cover to pop it loose with a mallet.

Supercat said:

Hi all,

I was able to acquire a kickstart pawl after, and I had some time this evening to face the more challenging steps involved with removing the inner gearbox case. I was able to remove all of the nuts without any issue, and I made a tool to remove the clutch operating lever body, which worked great. I was able to remove the main shaft nut without any problems using a healthy dose of leverage.

The inner cover is now ready to come off, however, because the gearbox is still on the bike I have no room to hit it properly with a rubber mallet. I can kind of get at one corner of it, but I'm not able to smack it away from the rest of the gearbox as required. I've tried just hauling on it with my bare hands (not working), and I tried putting a narrow piece of wood against the back of it so I could tap that with the mallet, but there is really no room to use this method either. The wood just ends up slipping uselessly downward every time.

Anyone have any advice on how I might get this thing to start separating? Thanks!!

Click to expand...

Have you removed all the nuts that hold the inner case to the g'box shell .Re-attach the kick starter to the shaft and use this to act as a lever and the inner case should now be able to be removed .

OOo, great idea! Yes, I did remove all the nuts: I believe there were 7 nuts, then the main shaft nut after the clutch operating lever body.

I'll give the re-attaching the kick starter method a shot. If that doesn't work I could pick up a dowel and try that too. Thanks NickZ & HRD!

Well, using a combination of both suggested methods I was able to remove the inner cover with no issues. Thanks again!

My original kickstart pawl was quite worn, as suspected, and I was able to put the new one in it's place quite easily. Then as I was getting ready for reassembly I noticed a crack in the inner part of the kickstart shaft. I'm including a couple of photos, and I'm wondering if this is anything I should be deeply concerned about or not:





At first I was thinking that it might be life threatening, but after reflecting on it a bit I'm now thinking that it would likely only break during actual kickstarting, in which case it would be pretty obvious and I could just turn the bike off. And even if it did somehow manage to break while riding, the pieces would likely be trapped by the kickstart gear wouldn't they? What do you think?

I would suggest that you should replace it now while you have it apart rather than having a russian roulette situation waiting for it to let go.
And it will probably be guaranteed that it will hurt . (Inside out knee)

Replace it now, once cracked it won't be long before it fails completely and saves you pulling your GB apart again, my kick start shaft broke completely at the same spot where your crack is and while there make sure the kick start gear where the pawl sits in is not worn, if it has rounded edges its worn and needs replacing and if its worn you will be replacing the pawl more often.
Replace it now or you be push starting your Norton and that's no fun as I did that back in the late 70s when some low life stole my kicker and took me 4 months to find a replacement, no internet in them days.

Ashley

Thanks Blaisestation and Ashman. Wise advice for sure. I'm certainly convinced that it needs to be replaced, and I've just written to my parts supplier about getting a new one. I had a look at the KS gear, and thankfully, that looks great.

My main issue now is having to wait for another part to come in. I've lost about 3 weeks of riding because of the pawl situation and I am just dying to use the bike. I don't mind spending the time on pulling the gearbox apart again now that I have the tools to do it. Beyond over-extending my knee, are there any major risks to life and limb if I were to put everything back together temporarily so that I can get a little bit of country road riding in while I wait for the new shaft and bush to arrive?

Thanks again!!

Ok, ok, I get it. Nobody wants to say 'yes, go ahead, you'll be fine' and then find out later that something went wrong. Completely understandable. The fact that nobody is actually saying that this is life threatening does give me some comfort though.

So I think what I may do for now is smack it all back together quickly so that I can get a few low speed rides in while I wait for parts. That's if I have time. If I end up too busy with other things I may just leave it as is until the parts arrive.

After thinking about it some more I'm still not super worried about any major imminent issues being caused by shaft failure for the reasons mentioned above (it would likely fail while starting, and if it did manage to fail while riding the pieces should be trapped by the KS gear), but also because I'm guessing that it was in this state for quite a while. When I first got the bike running after first acquiring it, there was some vicious kickback involved. I'm guessing that the crack would have developed at this time, or sometime before. During a conversation I had with the PO he gave me the impression that kickback was a major factor in his decision to sell. I sorted out the kickback in the process of the general rebuild (which did not include getting into the gearbox), so I think it's very unlikely that the crack is a recent development. I imagine that the crack has likely been there ever since I've been riding it. For these reasons I feel like I can probably get away with a few short, low speed rides while waiting for parts.

I'll keep you posted.

Hi, your layshaft is supported by the bush in that kickstart................

Hi, your layshaft is supported by the bush in that kickstart...............

Click to expand...

Ok, so this is potentially life threatening then. In that case I guess I'd better wait for the parts. Better to have to hold off on riding for a bit longer and not be dead . Thanks for this, I appreciate it.