BREXIT(?)

I'm retiring at the end of 2016 and look forward to the same kind of solace in the garage. I'm slowly easing into "don't give a f#*k" mode and am just about ready to turn my concerns over to the next generation. My biggest worry is that that generation will never be able to retire because the powers that be apparently want everyone to work until dead, so they won't NEED a retirement plan.
 
72Combat said:
How does the bit where the EU say they once your out of the EU you can't do separate deals with various EU countries.
Surely that means the Germans can't sell the UK cars and so on...seems unlikely?[/quote.
Fast Eddie said:
And that's the point. The UK is Germany's biggest export market in Europe, they cannot afford to jeapodise that, so sensible trading arrangements are certain to be established.
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Quite how the VAT etc arrangements will change is something that will have to be thrashed out in the discussions about the UK leaving the EU.

If nothing changes, the UK won't really have left ??
 
The anti-Keynesians, the Austrian economists, call it the "Welfare-Warfare State." That is what they call the typical de facto coalition of the Left and Right that rules many governments around the world, especially here in the U.S. That's why Hillary Clinton makes the occasional hawkish screech and why Trump talks vaguely of "rebuilding the military." It's unsustainably expensive "cost plus" defense contractor welfare. Meanwhile, they both support equally unsustainable social programs. It's a winning combination - for both sides.
 
Again, in another post, you're flying completely off the rails to forward your libertarian manifesto that posits that the world is hopelessly screwed and can only get back on track and away from the cliff of oblivion by abandoning any other viewpoint. Please don't post any links as "proof" as you have none since your economic philosophy has never been successfully implemented in recorded history. You are only guessing it could ever succeed because it's never been tried. And it never will be. If we were all Harvard-educated cavemen, it might have a chance. But just like libertarianism, that's just fantasy.
 
Actually, there were two eras in American history when libertarian policies prevailed, and those eras are noted for theiry exceptional economic growth.

The first, when what we now call "Austrian" policies prevailed was from 1837 until the Civil War: a tiny federal government, virtually zero national government debt, no central bank, specie coin, low tariffs, no income tax. Enormous economic growth. Then, Lincoln's war and "Greenback inflation."

Then, the second, from 1879 when the gold standard was re-established until 1914. This time the economic growth was fabulous, unprecedented. If you want to read about this, click on this link for a free book -

https://mises.org/library/transformatio ... -1865-1914
 
xbacksideslider said:
Actually, there were two eras in American history when libertarian policies prevailed, and those eras are noted for theiry exceptional economic growth.

The first, when what we now call "Austrian" policies prevailed was from 1837 until the Civil War: a tiny federal government, virtually zero national government debt, no central bank, specie coin, low tariffs, no income tax. Enormous economic growth. Then, Lincoln's war and "Greenback inflation."

Then, the second, from 1879 when the gold standard was re-established until 1914. This time the economic growth was fabulous, unprecedented. If you want to read about this, click on this link for a free book -

https://mises.org/library/transformatio ... -1865-1914
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For the majority of Americans, the only period of "fabulous" economic growth was immediately following WWII. And until masses of people left farms post-Civil War, there was no real way of tracking economic growth, especially without all those "hindrances to growth" you list. Free books aren't worth their price. Religious nutballs give them away door-to-door and at the airport. There was very little national debt until WWII when it became necessary to borrow money to defeat Hitler. The indirect result was the largest period of growth in our history and the Libertarians had nothing to do with it, because they all wanted to cower at home and let Hitler have Europe. Just like they wanted to let The Confederacy seceed and have their slaves. Which is why people like you refer to it as "Lincoln's War" You should be ashamed. Taking credit for any economic growth during periods when child labor and slavery were common isn't something to be proud of.
 
I can feel the hate, Danno.
Just having a conversation here.

I should feel ashamed? THAT is rich. Look in the mirror.
 
xbacksideslider said:
I can feel the hate, Danno.
Just having a conversation here.

I should feel ashamed? THAT is rich. Look in the mirror.
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Not hate. Just a strong sense of bias. Everyone has some, being products of genetics and environment. Those who get theirs from devotion to a cultish religion or philosophy with no room for open-mindedness, independent thought or acceptance of diversity can only see rationalization for what they believe. This is why you have Sunnis and Shias and Catholics and Protestants killing each other-blind devotion, righteousness and the tendency to parrot the words of others (or post silly links they think prove what they believe).

You take every opportunity to inject your bias into a conversaion whether it's relevant or not. I try to keep mine in check on the chance I may be wrong. Try it sometime.
 
xbacksideslider said:
Look in the mirror, my friend.
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Child labor and slavery are not among the parts of our history I glorify, so I have no trouble looking in a mirror. You, on the other hand....
 
The GATT meetings of the 70s were about mutual recognition of quality management system certifications so that quality issues would not become barriers to trade. I suggest there is only one way for countries such as the UK, America and Australia to compete in the neoliberal globalised economy and that is on the basis of quality. So it comes down to values. If you look at the example of Germany, their market niche is usually at the top end where prices of their goods and services much more than justify their overheads. That means their workers high salaries can be maintained and are justified by their level of education. In Australia our car industry had tariff protection for about 30 years. The product was shit and only in recent years has it moved up-market a bit. The Abbott government refused to subsidise car manufacturing further, so GM, Ford and Toyota are leaving Australia. The social cost of the job-loss is now just beginning to be felt. Of course all of this presumes that there will continue to be a market for consumer goods and every country is now going backwards.
 
acotrel said:
The GATT meetings of the 70s were about mutual recognition of quality management system certifications so that quality issues would not become barriers to trade. I suggest there is only one way for countries such as the UK, America and Australia to compete in the neoliberal globalised economy and that is on the basis of quality. So it comes down to values. If you look at the example of Germany, their market niche is usually at the top end where prices of their goods and services much more than justify their overheads. That means their workers high salaries can be maintained and are justified by their level of education. In Australia our car industry had tariff protection for about 30 years. The product was shit and only in recent years has it moved up-market a bit. The Abbott government refused to subsidise car manufacturing further, so GM, Ford and Toyota are leaving Australia. The social cost of the job-loss is now just beginning to be felt. Of course all of this presumes that there will continue to be a market for consumer goods and every country is now going backwards.
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What it comes down to is a rise in standard of living for the third-world economies and a lowering of the standard for the rest of us. The countries that cannot bribe the mulitnaionals with low wages and lax regulation have to bribe them with subsidies or block their sales figures with tariffs or they take cheaper options. Over time, the predatory business practices go around in a circle and things will (supposedly) level out for the world's population. In the meantime the ultra-wealthy are insulated from the changes in the fiscal weather and the populations of the countries that were built with hundreds of years of hard work and production will continue to see an erosion in their economic well-being. However abused or leveraged, concepts like the EU were conceived to mitigate the ill effects of all this. By pulling out, the UK may see some short-term benefit, but in the long run, fixing the problems would have been a better solution, IMO.
 
Just now it has been stated that no attempt to exit the E.U . for 12 months which shows that this Conservative government are dragging their heels over it. It appears that they are hoping the IN/OUT result will die a slow death and people will forget about it, as they also want yet another referendum because of the low turnout or narrow win, that’s a bit rich considering the Conservatives got elected into government on only 24% of the electorate .
 
The right wing in this country also relies on low voter turnout to win elections. The brand of politics they have introduced has turned off so many voters who no longer think their vote means anything and...guess who wins?
 
Just a question for Frank: why, after being here for most of your life, have you not applied for citizenship? Then you can vote if
nothing else. And did you know, that you can hold dual citizenship in the USA now? My old lady has it....they simply dont ask you
about giving anything up. In the UK dual citizenship has long been ok.
Just a thought.
 
The original reason I never applied for US citzenship was to prevent Boeing from sending me on jobs for the US military, which were always in hot, sticky climates such as Louisiana and Mississippi. They needed Top Secret clearances, which resident aliens couldn't get. Since i've been retired from Boeing since Sept 1999, I could apply, but it's $1600 each to go through the processing. We've just renewed our resident foreigner cards for just over half that. I'll be 85 when the new one expires.

I don't think it's worth over $3K to get the right to vote. If there were primary elections to choose the Presidential candidates, we would have considered it, but when you get The Donald and Hillary rammed up your backside as your only choices, the urge to be able to vote disappears, at least for us.
 
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