Anybody gone hi-tech and tried something like this?

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The real bite you got to buy two. Good tool, tall learning curve. Great for a small group to go in on. It's like vacuum gages and leak down testers simple tools with a ton of learning needed to make them effective. Someone might say master plug reading and forget all three tools.
 
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Very interesting....I wonder if that would work if you just placed the sensor in the end of the mufflers and tuned each carb...that is, without permanently installing it. Here in Maricopa County, we are proud to be the only county in the nation (that I'm aware of) that requires emissions testing on motorcycles.....It is a real pain for me as the test is required yearly. I have my 72 Combat and 75 R90S that have consistently failed emissions each year on the first try. I'm going to check this thing out. I wouldn't mind paying the $185.00. If I could use it on each bike once a year and then put it away till the next time.
 
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Only problem I see with stuffing them in the mufflers is maybe it won't reach the required 600 (!) degrees F? Maybe it's just me, but I don't mind mildly "marring" some parts for the sake of installing a cool little gadget/conversation piece. Plus if it works it'll be easier than tuning by the usual methods of plug condition/feel/smell/moon phase/goat sacrifice.
 
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It's been done. Some years ago. See Allen's note in the INOA magazine old issue though. This man was familiar enough to get a set of O2 sensors from a junk yard and hook up a duel reading volt meter he that already knew the values he needed for best running. A set of ragamuffin pipes are needed to get the sensors in the right spot.
 
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I've never tried it on a Norton, but a time-honored method of balancing the carbs on BMWs is to raise the idle until the bike will run on one cylinder. Then tune that cylinder until the highest RPM is attained. Slowly reduce the idle until the cylinder stalls. Do the same thing on the remaining cylinder. When both plugs are reconnected the idle will be perfect and the carbs balanced.

It's necessary to make a tool out of an old coil-to-plug wire. Cut off the spark plug cap and replace it with an alligator clip which can be attached to a cylinder fin to ground the ignition on that side.

I do like K&N's little toy but I'm loathe to drill holes in my header pipes. Seems that would be a breeding-ground for rust. I like Outlaw's idea of placing the sensors temporarily in the tailpipes if it would work.

Al
 
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It's necessary to make a tool out of an old coil-to-plug wire. Cut off the spark plug cap and replace it with an alligator clip which can be attached to a cylinder fin to ground the ignition on that side.

I assume you do this to prevent ignition failure, especially with the Boyer. If this is correct, going directly to ground with the plug wire will give you zero resistance and high current. Using a spark plug to ground for the nonfiring cylinder will provide high resistance with low current. I don't know much about Boyer ignitions, but a spark plug gap represents a high resistance, whereas a ground is zero resistance.
 
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Another dumb observation....isn't this just a Lambda Sonda or what ever they are called...reads the exhaust mixture and relates info to the black box so that can adjust the mixture and correct richness or leanness? Looks like a two into one into two Dunstall set of headers would be the trick, and a tunable black box, which there must be such a thing....then you might go for fuel injection instead of carbs... :wink:
 

L.A.B.

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hewhoistoolazytologin said:
Another dumb observation....isn't this just a Lambda Sonda or what ever they are called...reads the exhaust mixture and relates info to the black box so that can adjust the mixture and correct richness or leanness?

Yes, it is, it's not intended for carb balancing, I use a Morgan Carbtune for that: http://www.carbtune.com/ (it works on BMWs too both 2 & 4 cylinder).
 
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Only problem I see with stuffing them in the mufflers is maybe it won't reach the required 600 (!) degrees F?
Four-wire sensors have a built in heater. The biggest problem with just stuffing it in the muffler is that the outside of the sensor has to be exposed to clean air. I think you could make an adapter our of a piece of tubing with a dogleg in it (I've seen similar adapters for use with automobile tailpipes).

Maybe it's just me, but I don't mind mildly "marring" some parts for the sake of installing a cool little gadget/conversation piece. Plus if it works it'll be easier than tuning by the usual methods of plug condition/feel/smell/moon phase/goat sacrifice.

If you have 850 headers with the crossover, it seems you could find a scrap crossover and insert the sensor into it, then once you had the carbs all jetted, put your nice shiny crossover back.
 
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Got to agree a crusty pair of balanced pipes will be ideal.
Each tool has it's day, vacuum gages are great for idle setting and seeing that the slides are pulling in unison. They could also give a clue to valves that are not operating well.
Leak down testers are good for, is it valves or is it rings? but can be used to find all matter of maladies.
O-2 sensors that give off a finite voltage when triggered by heat of the mixture can be used in unison with a deep knowledge of carb circuits and how they relate to throttle position to slowly nick away at rich and lean spots in the overlap of those circuits.
But if you can't read plugs you have no business trying any of it. And if you can read plugs you may never need the rest of the tools.
If your running a Boyer do you know were your box is starting? Have you degree wheeled your marks on the gage so you know how far off it is. All carb tune books start with, fist time the bike, but most owners don't start this in the right spot and since a Commando will run nice all over the board so many owners have fun chasing their tails around the carbs. JMO
 
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JimC wrote:

I assume you do this to prevent ignition failure, especially with the Boyer.

Truth is, JimC, that I don't know why it's done. I was just told to do it when I learned the technique. It's always worked.

But you make a good point and I think I'll modify my tool. It might be a good idea to TIG weld an alligator clip to a spark plug electrode and pop the plug into the spark plug cap.

Thanks!

Al
 
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Tulsaalva

If it is working by grounding the spark plug wire then it's working. I didn't mean to say you were incorrect. Just wanted to point out the difference. Grounding the base electrode and plugging the spark plug into the wire will also give you a nice spark indicator when trouble shooting ignitions.
 
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I'm sure the spark plug idea is a real improvement over my simple tool, Jim. It won't be necessary to remove the wire from the coil and the spark-indicator is yet another plus.

Next time I set up my Tig welder I'll make one, (no, I'll make two) using nice large alligator clips to hold the weight of the plugs.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Al
 
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Sounds like a winner, Al. A TIG, lathe, vertical mill, air compressor and hydraulic press seem to be necessary standard equipment when you own a Norton. I have three of the five. Don't have the skill to run the metal chompers.
 
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Jeepers, guys! :shock:
I just use a jumper wire with good-sized clips on both ends. let the plug hang, clip up the jumper and go on. You can even use it for other things.

Mike
Kansas, America
Simple is best. :D
 
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JimC said:
Sounds like a winner, Al. A TIG, lathe, vertical mill, air compressor and hydraulic press seem to be necessary standard equipment when you own a Norton. I have three of the five. Don't have the skill to run the metal chompers.

(Chuckle, Chuckle...)

I can only count the Tig, air compressor and hydraulic press in my garage, but the guy across the street has a beautiful shop! He makes cannons. No kidding!

When he built his shop in his back yard, I tried to convince him he needed a hydraulic lift, but he hates working on cars and has never owned a motorcycle. :( He turns out some beautiful shootin' irons, though, even if they're a bit big for Oklahoma's "concealed carry law." :)

Al
 
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Having a neighbor who has the lathe and mill would be an ideal situation. I've threatened to buy them both, but I just don't want the learning curve that goes with them. The problem with doing everything oneself is the skill level usually isn't there until you've had years of practice. The welding I learned as an ironworker for thirty years.
 
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I'm sure you're right, Mike, but the garage is a large part of the hobby, don't you think?

Here's an article I clipped out of a car mag several years ago:

DUTCH MANDEL

A man's home is his, um, garage


I sat around with a couple buddies doing what buddies who sit around do: talk cars. Actually, we talked about the care and feeding of cars. We talked about garages.

It sure sounds sexist, but we came to the conclusion that garages are to guys what kitchens are to gals. It was agreed women don't have the same reverance for garages as do men.

There. It's out in the open. And sure as Flicka made little road apples, mail from tranny fluid-spittin' women will rain down on us. So be it. I will say that while that generalization holds true for most members of the fairer sex, other wimen will admit we must pry their cold, dead fingers from their garage-door openers... I could not agree more.

Think about this: Kitchens and garages have much in common. Total square footage is key, the more the better. Accessible work-space area is a must. Hardware is of primary consideration — just how are you going to outfit them? Each room requires good drainage.

I would salivate if a Viking range or Subzero refrigerator were in my kitchen... or in my garage. Despite the semi-Neanderthal comment above, I think of myself as a Renaissance guy who enjoys whipping up something semi-exotic in my kitchen... or in my garage. I've been known to oil cast-iron skillets far more frequently than every 3,000 meals.

This whole conversation started with my buddy, Lewis. Lew is adding onto his house, and he's going all out. There's a new family room. A new master suite with lav and Jacuzzi. An enclosed porch. Another bathroom. Several walk-in closets. And a new, tripled-in-size kitchen (with a Subzero built into the plans and the budget).

And a garage. A man's garage. A 22-by-28-foot garage. A garage to keep his '65 Mustang notchback well-tended. A garage with six windows. A heated garage with an insulated upstairs space where he can watch F1 races and hockey games and smoke cigars and not darken the walls of his new addition.

It's a garage that has the neighborhood men aluminum-sided with garage envy.

Naturally, his wife went nova. Absolutely exploded. She wasn't angry about the heated, carpeted living space above the garage, into which he plans to throw a refrigerator and a big-screen television. She was furious that he had bumped the footprint out by four feet more than the plans had specified. Hey, Therese, think of it as increased space for tools, he said. It's a place for the children's toys, for their bikes, and for all other kid flotsam and jetsam.

His pleas fell on deaf ears. She smelled conspiracy commingled with 30-weight. She asked if he was getting another car. (He now admits it was a mistake not to have told her about the Mustang before he drove it home.) She wondered aloud whether he was having the garage heated for some illicit reason beyond comfort in the winter months.

No, no, no and no, he said, and still she would have none of it. Therese knew Lew was getting his oversized garage to satisfy a primordial urge, and she thought that extravagance could be used elsewhere — perhaps on a Viking range?

In some ways I'm sorry for Lew, having to go through the trauma of building onto his house. In other ways I'm just plain envious, what with his garage bigger than mine. The fight is not over, though the garage foundation is poured and the walls are up. I wonder how it is he's going to sell the idea of why he needs a hydraulic lift for the kids.


:)
Al
 
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Hey Al-
I'm definately with you on the garage concept--about 1/2 done with a 24X30 heated addition to the barn as we speak. (Tough to paint a truck/car in a barn!) Have a little time in a kitchen as well (former Exec. Chef). Lathes and mills are like Sub-zero refirgeration units and Viking ranges in my opinion, though--if you make your living with them, by all means have them, but if you are using them for home/infrequent use, why trip over them? A standard gas range works fine in my kitchen and I know enough machinists that large machine tools just eat into my parts budget!
Heresy to some, but good common sense to me. To each his own, though.

Mike
Kansas, America
 
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