961 is back !

Voodooo said:
And, as others have said, the virtual internet reviewers mean absolutely nothing.
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Exactly!
Whether the 961 is marketed as 'Premium' or not, the factory must establish that the NEW 961 is FIXED.
They can only achieve this by having long-term use/ownership tests performed by MC publication.
MCN is OK, but how about Cycle World, Motorcyclist, Classic Bike, and other publications.
We need to know how the 961 will fare after 4,000 miles, in the rain, in freezing, or scalding hot weather?
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
if the 961 were to be a success 2nd time around, might Norton consider the Dommie again - unlikely I think. Might aftermarket suppliers step in as sales increase (hopefully)? ‘Unlikely’ say you - ‘maybe’ say I. But then I’ve always been an optimist.
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I would like to see Norton position the Commando as entry level in components and price, and then bring back the Dominator as the premium model. I like the Domi's monoshock pseudo-Featherbed design, but I would take the Domi one step beyond.
A trellis framed Domi. The classic commando mill in this modern trellis frame.
Tres chic babie!

The Norton Ala’Verda: Norton and Laverda Hybrid - Motorcycle Classics

I’d wager many of us daydream about building a special custom motorcycle of some kind, combining bits and pieces of favorite bikes into something uniquely our own. Something like Delfour’s combination of a Norton and a Laverda that he calls a "Norton Ala’Verda."
www.motorcycleclassics.com
 
Maybe I should convert this one to a street bike and go into production. Or just do a similar design for the 961 engine. Do you think TVS would sell me engines? 🤣

961 is back !


Ken
 
TonyA said:
The 961 is back is it not ? We can buy parts for Norton Commando 961's (the ones that still fit) correct ? What would it take for Norton to produce a V4 at half the price it is now ? Based on most things I've read it needs to cost less than 30K . How much can they reduce the price if you take out all of the polishing , Ohlins for Showa , Brembo for Nissin , OZ and BST for Asian , Carbon fiber tanks for Aluminum ? If this was done what would the new base model price be ?
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They are not selling parts. Only parts they have stock on.
 
Voodooo said:
How can anyone claim a motorcycle or anything for that matter, with China made parts as a premium product?

The 961 isn’t a premium brand nor can it pretend to be.
TVS can not and has not been vocal or forward of anything that they claim they improved.

Just saying they made 300 or 1/3 improvements means nothing.
They failed to even showcase these claims to the buyers market. And, as others have said, the virtual internet reviewers mean absolutely nothing.

Saying TVS Norton is a premium brand is pretty funny.
Are the MV Agustas and CCM bikes premium?

Low production volume and high price doesn’t make it a premium. It just means low sales and low demand.
The 961 doesn’t have or use premium materials.

The resale prices of the 961 shows that the bike isn’t in high demand.


Not really my cup of tea, but I would consider the Brough Superior a more Premium brand than any 961.

www.brough-superior-motorcycles.com

Brough Superior moto – Motos de luxe françaises d’exception

Brough Superior, motos de luxe 100% françaises. Engins d'exception, véritables œuvres d'art créées et usinées en région toulousaine par les meilleurs artisans.
www.brough-superior-motorcycles.com www.brough-superior-motorcycles.com
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Just had a look at how many are for sale in the UK. Wow...a lot more than I expected.
 
BritTwit said:
I would like to see Norton position the Commando as entry level in components and price, and then bring back the Dominator as the premium model. I like the Domi's monoshock pseudo-Featherbed design, but I would take the Domi one step beyond.
A trellis framed Domi. The classic commando mill in this modern trellis frame.
Tres chic babie!

The Norton Ala’Verda: Norton and Laverda Hybrid - Motorcycle Classics

I’d wager many of us daydream about building a special custom motorcycle of some kind, combining bits and pieces of favorite bikes into something uniquely our own. Something like Delfour’s combination of a Norton and a Laverda that he calls a "Norton Ala’Verda."
www.motorcycleclassics.com
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That would make the most sense. As Tony said, use the regular Jap and CN components other manufacturers use, then create the special or R models etc. Then you would see more of an interest.
 
The use of the term Premium is difficult unless ya qualify what it means. Are we are talking about price, quality, manufacturers reputation or all of these things? By what scale? For cost/quality maybe: Entry level - Premium - Luxury? If so, where is the 961 placed? Yes, I’d generally put MV/Ducati in premium also; Brough etc would be in the luxury category I suppose. An imperfect descriptor/scale at best. What about flagship bikes from other manufacturers. They all have Chinese/overseas parts no doubt!

With the 961 and V4SV/CR lineup and Norton’s approach to marketing/sales, its pretty clear which end of the market they are currently aiming for (rightly or wrongly); whether ya view the 961 as premium or not, by some other measure, is personal opinion I suppose.

Are the parts/components on the new 961 sub-standard in some way? Ohlins, Brembo, braided hoses, billet, carbon - those engine/sprockets covers don’t look cheap etc, or are we talking about performance? If not marketed (and priced) as premium then how should the 961 be marketed?

I hadn’t heard of Norton Birmingham warning-off aftermarket suppliers - I guess if it’s the likes of carbon companies reverse engineering products that Norton sell themselve, that may be understandable. If not, for what type of items/products?

Yes it would be awesome if Norton would put the time, effort and funding into: explaining/ presenting each change made; detailing which components will fit our bikes and which won’t; provide any technical/functional/interface implications and answering the raft of associated questions that would undoubtably follow. Doing so whilst avoiding any liability that may be associated with parts or advice, for bikes they did not build nor have any obligation to support. And probably revealing at the same time that they have grossly exaggerated the changes to distance new from old models. I guess we could accept the decision. Or not.

I’ve just requested a price for seat components - I received the standard explanatory response that we’ve seen before. In short, only parts that Norton Birmingham has sourced and tested for their 961 are available for purchase (95% compatability?). I guess they will prioritise parts required to build new bikes for sale - that will likely lead to delays I would think; we’re not talking about a mainstream manufacturer here.

Cheer leading for TVS in my overly optimistic way (as some may characterise) or giving a balanced opinion? We’ve all got one - an opinion that is;)!
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
The use of the term Premium is difficult unless ya qualify what it means. Are we are talking about price, quality, manufacturers reputation or all of these things? By what scale? For cost/quality maybe: Entry level - Premium - Luxury? If so, where is the 961 placed? Yes, I’d generally put MV/Ducati in premium also; Brough etc would be in the luxury category I suppose. An imperfect descriptor/scale at best. What about flagship bikes from other manufacturers. They all have Chinese/overseas parts no doubt!

With the 961 and V4SV/CR lineup and Norton’s approach to marketing/sales, its pretty clear which end of the market they are currently aiming for (rightly or wrongly); whether ya view the 961 as premium or not, by some other measure, is personal opinion I suppose.

Are the parts/components on the new 961 sub-standard in some way? Ohlins, Brembo, braided hoses, billet, carbon - those engine/sprockets covers don’t look cheap etc, or are we talking about performance? If not marketed (and priced) as premium then how should the 961 be marketed?

I hadn’t heard of Norton Birmingham warning-off aftermarket suppliers - I guess if it’s the likes of carbon companies reverse engineering products that Norton sell themselve, that may be understandable. If not, for what type of items/products?

Yes it would be awesome if Norton would put the time, effort and funding into: explaining/ presenting each change made; detailing which components will fit our bikes and which won’t; provide any technical/functional/interface implications and answering the raft of associated questions that would undoubtably follow. Doing so whilst avoiding any liability that may be associated with parts or advice, for bikes they did not build nor have any obligation to support. And probably revealing at the same time that they have grossly exaggerated the changes to distance new from old models. I guess we could accept the decision. Or not.

I’ve just requested a price for seat components - I received the standard explanatory response that we’ve seen before. In short, only parts that Norton Birmingham has sourced and tested for their 961 are available for purchase (95% compatability?). I guess they will prioritise parts required to build new bikes for sale - that will likely lead to delays I would think; we’re not talking about a mainstream manufacturer here.

Cheer leading for TVS in my overly optimistic way (as some may characterise) or giving a balanced opinion? We’ve all got one - an opinion that is;)!
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Norton TVS isn’t the second coming of Christ.
The components are not top notch.

The Brembo calipers are the base units.
I can’t think of another bike in this price range that uses the same Brembo calipers.
My Ducati Scrambler Desert sled uses one on the front, and this bike cost half of my 2016 961 SF.

Premium should have top spec components throughout.

Those engine and sprocket covers were made in China. Maybe India now, who knows.

Premium would be something that’s opposite of what we all bought.
We all paid a premium price and received something that needed upgraded, fixed or repaired.

We paid a premium up charge for a bruised apple, I like my apples fresh picked without worms and bruises.
 
Engine covers were predominantly made by Alucast in the UK. A very premium company. Right towards end of production a few went out with Indian covers...the biggest give away is the use of the later font on the timing chain cover. The sprocket cover was also altered to do away with the three 5mm spacers. The primary cover was also altered slightly. The Inidan aluminium appears to polish up brighter, but also has many more imperfections. Most of the Indian covers were warped too....needing some reworking.
Looking at the show mules, it appears that Brummie Norton have switched back to Alucast. Makes sense with them being on their doorstep.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I’ve just requested a price for seat components - I received the standard explanatory response that we’ve seen before. In short, only parts that Norton Birmingham has sourced and tested for their 961 are available for purchase (95% compatability?). I guess they will prioritise parts required to build new bikes for sale - that will likely lead to delays I would think; we’re not talking about a mainstream manufacturer here.
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My order was filled completely. It took about 2 weeks to get my order .
 
Voodooo said:
Norton TVS isn’t the second coming of Christ.
The components are not top notch.

The Brembo calipers are the base units.
I can’t think of another bike in this price range that uses the same Brembo calipers.
My Ducati Scrambler Desert sled uses one on the front, and this bike cost half of my 2016 961 SF.

Premium should have top spec components throughout.

Those engine and sprocket covers were made in China. Maybe India now, who knows.

Premium would be something that’s opposite of what we all bought.
We all paid a premium price and received something that needed upgraded, fixed or repaired.

We paid a premium up charge for a bruised apple, I like my apples fresh picked without worms and bruises.
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Your first line says it all Voodoo. No real value in continuing the conversation!
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Your first line says it all Voodoo. No real value in continuing the conversation!
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Well SS.
Many here seem to think that TVS is going to be this miracle savior of Norton, and put the brand back on the world scale as it once was.

I have a difficult time understanding and seeing some optimism in this subject of TVS.
Over 3 years since TVS took over, and yet, how many bikes have they sold and produced?

To call them a premium brand, when they can not even display the product or improvements they claim to of made.
They have not even designed their own model of bike as of yet. They have taken the design from SG era bikes and made unknown changes to them that we still haven’t been told of.
 
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