961 Design Philosophy

annajeannette said:
Hello the Commando 961 design was done by a bunch of kids for there engineering thesis in California technical college base on the old Commando and the only thing that is British on these Bikes I the Name Norton every thing on this bike has been made world wide in cluing china and even the screws and nuts and bolts made in china suspension made in Sweden the brakes made in Italy frame made in India and many other components So the only thing British is the Name of Norton on the Tank
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It sounds to me like you don’t really like the new Nortons very much.

Therefore my advice to you is: don’t buy one.

This forum is specifically for those who do own one, and / or are interested in them… so if you do not, and are not, then you really have no business on this forum.

There really is nothing to gain in life from visiting a model specific internet forum purely to post digs against said model.
 
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BritTwit said:
Sadly you're probably correct.
A redesigned NEW 961 may have finally become the machine it should have been back in 2010 when originally introduced. If that's the case it will still be a tough road for the factory because of the Royal Enfields and Triumphs out there that cost far less. The 961 is certainly exclusive and aesthetically superior to those, but at 3 times the price of a RE Intercepter, and twice the price of a Triumph Street Twin it will be a hard sell for Norton to compete. There are quite a few younger riders who do appreciate the classic design of these bikes, but they will never be able to afford the price of the 961s. RE and Triumph will get their money.
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Have to disagree in part BT. I don’t think the rider interested in a new Norton 961 is the same person as that looking at a RE Interceptor, or a Triumph Street Twin for that matter. He or she has disposable income to purchse a Norton (or similar - if such a bike existed) and likely wants the exclusivity, uniqueness, build quality, design authenticity (configuration) and to buy into the Norton marque.

I don’t think our buyer would be happy with the cash saving, whilst watching the crowd at their local bikers haunt walk past their ubiquitous machine without a glance. Great machines they are, but mass produced, engineered down to a price and some may say a tad uninspiring. If ya want something special, then special it needs to be!

If Norton Birmingham can make good their plans to export the 961 I think they will meet their sales targets.

MOO!
 
On reflection annajeanette I really must apologise for my prickly response; I am never at my best before my first cup of coffee. You have taken the trouble to register on the forum so I am thinking that you have come to realise that despite its cheap foreign Ohlin suspension and largely unknown Brembo brakes it it actually a fine looking bike which is great to ride and now comes from a state-of-the-art factory (as you have seen) where the engineers have ironed out a lot of its problems. Perhaps you are thinking of trading in some unreliable, poorly built oily old models for a nice shiny new Norton 961? If so you will be most welcome in the 961 community and we will be delighted to hear how you are enjoying ownership. Kindest Regards Clive.
 
Clive said:
On reflection annajeanette I really must apologise for my prickly response; I am never at my best before my first cup of coffee. You have taken the trouble to register on the forum so I am thinking that you have come to realise that despite its cheap foreign Ohlin suspension and largely unknown Brembo brakes it it actually a fine looking bike which is great to ride and now comes from a state-of-the-art factory (as you have seen) where the engineers have ironed out a lot of its problems. Perhaps you are thinking of trading in some unreliable, poorly built oily old models for a nice shiny new Norton 961? If so you will be most welcome in the 961 community and we will be delighted to hear how you are enjoying ownership. Kindest Regards Clive.
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Coffee evidently improves your prose sir…
 
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Clive said:
On reflection annajeanette I really must apologise for my prickly response; I am never at my best before my first cup of coffee. You have taken the trouble to register on the forum so I am thinking that you have come to realise that despite its cheap foreign Ohlin suspension and largely unknown Brembo brakes it it actually a fine looking bike which is great to ride and now comes from a state-of-the-art factory (as you have seen) where the engineers have ironed out a lot of its problems. Perhaps you are thinking of trading in some unreliable, poorly built oily old models for a nice shiny new Norton 961? If so you will be most welcome in the 961 community and we will be delighted to hear how you are enjoying ownership. Kindest Regards Clive.
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May I ask what coffee this is sir? 😂😂😂
 
You sure it’s not a coffee that you smoke… and has no coffee in it…?
 
Fast Eddie said:
It sounds to me like you don’t really like the new Nortons very much.

Therefore my advice to you is: don’t buy one.

This forum is specifically for those who do own one, and / or are interested in them… so if you do not, and are not, then you really have no business on this forum.

There really is nothing to gain in life from visiting a model specific internet forum purely to post digs against said model.
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It could just be that AJ is warning us all, like the Seer warned Caesar about a threat against him.
The 961 is not a true British motorcycle, it is an impostor, don't be fooled!
961 owners, beware the Ides of March!!!!!!

Oh, sorry, seems I need my morning coffee too.;)
 
Clive said:
Fairtrade Inclusive-Community-supporting Organically farmed coffee shipped in handmade hemp bags using carbon neutral transport.
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BritTwit said:
It could just be that AJ is warning us all, like the Seer warned Caesar about a threat against him.
The 961 is not a true British motorcycle, it is an impostor, don't be fooled!
961 owners, beware the Ides of March!!!!!!

Oh, sorry, seems I need my morning coffee too.;)
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BritTwit said:
It could just be that AJ is warning us all, like the Seer warned Caesar about a threat against him.
The 961 is not a true British motorcycle, it is an impostor, don't be fooled!
961 owners, beware the Ides of March!!!!!!

Oh, sorry, seems I need my morning coffee too.;)
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Since the first 961 was handed off by Stuart Garner in March 2010 there may be something to your warning about the Ides. It wasn't on the 15th though.
 

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Clive said:
Fairtrade Inclusive-Community-supporting Organically farmed coffee shipped in handmade hemp bags using carbon neutral transport. Peace and love Man.
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Have you tried the Kopi Luwak?
 

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The design philosophy of the 961 came straight from Kenny Dreer's extensive experience at hopping up the original 850 Commandos.
By the time he built the Dreer 880s he had replaced 80% of the engine with uprated parts.(his number).
Sadly, it still didn't work as the engine lifespan was very short if the extra power was used.
He put it this way " You were buying expensive bikes and we were building time bombs"
The 952 was a completely new bike that looked a lot like his Dreer 880 Cafe racers. It was designed to overcome all of the weaknesses in the hopped up 850 Norton Commando engines.
I belive that if the financing had not been suddenly taken away he would have ironed out the bugs in the 952.
Instead the thing went to a firecracker salesman/ con man. Too bad, it was very close to becoming a really great retro bike with some extra oomph over the old Commando.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
The design philosophy of the 961 came straight from Kenny Dreer's extensive experience at hopping up the original 850 Commandos.
By the time he built the Dreer 880s he had replaced 80% of the engine with uprated parts.(his number).
Sadly, it still didn't work as the engine lifespan was very short if the extra power was used.
He put it this way " You were buying expensive bikes and we were building time bombs"
The 952 was a completely new bike that looked a lot like his Dreer 880 Cafe racers. It was designed to overcome all of the weaknesses in the hopped up 850 Norton Commando engines.
I belive that if the financing had not been suddenly taken away he would have ironed out the bugs in the 952.
Instead the thing went to a firecracker salesman/ con man. Too bad, it was very close to becoming a really great retro bike with some extra oomph over the old Commando.

Glen
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Indeed.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda is the story of the 952.
The 961 was a desperate attempt to roll out a production machine with the the wolf at the door.
Financing, and skullduggery by some partners brought Dreer's work to an end.
The whole experience left him with great distaste for corporate entrepreneurship.
 
annajeannette said:
Hello the Commando 961 design was done by a bunch of kids for there engineering thesis in California technical college base on the old Commando and the only thing that is British on these Bikes I the Name Norton every thing on this bike has been made world wide in cluing china and even the screws and nuts and bolts made in china suspension made in Sweden the brakes made in Italy frame made in India and many other components So the only thing British is the Name of Norton on the Tank
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159 posts on the commando forum and for the 160 we decide to troll the 961 forum? I'm at a loss about what brings these people out of the woodwork. I'm of at least average intelligence, but yet I'm struggling with an explanation. Is it boredom or lack of attention? Maybe it's a little slow on the Atlas forum.

But for the love of god, if you come to this forum, can you at least put three proper sentences together that make sense? Also, my customers pay good money for adding Ohlins, Brembo, etc, to their motorcycles, so pointing out good components makes a counterargument. I want those components on every motorcycle, and what about the Acerbis tank from Italy as well? Would you be happy with British oil in the crankcase? But look on the bright side the 961 left the factory with British air in the tires, so now we know what BS smells like.

Lots of motorcycles are made in other places with other parts. Some of the below are made at home and elsewhere.

First off, since its germane to this conversation. BMW 310 is made by TVS(Norton) in India, and other bikes are made in China.

Then...

Harley Davidson- China
Triumph- Thailand
Ducati- Thailand
Honda- Thailand, Japan, China

I just bought my son a Honda CRF250, and its made in Brazil.

P.S. If you don't get your bolts off of Alibaba, then you are not a true 961 fan!
 
Well I fit the category of people who don't own a 961 and occasionally post in this forum. I used to post in defense of the 1200 Triumphs whenever some snobbish comment was made about those. I've given up on that as Triumph is doing quite well with or without my defense!
I was sitting with funds ready to go for a new Commando in 2010 and thereafter. From the get go there seemed to be a lot of unhappy people with funds gone, sometimes in full and no bike in sight after a year or more of waiting. Eventually the bikes showed up and there were enough problems that I held off longer. Then my money went elsewhere. I've followed the whole saga closely though.
I did vote to have a 961 Forum before there was one, does that and 13 years of closely following the story give me the right to post here? Hope so.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
Well I fit the category of people who don't own a 961 and occasionally post in this forum. I used to post in defense of the 1200 Triumphs whenever some snobbish comment was made about those. I've given up on that as Triumph is doing quite well with or without my defense!
I was sitting with funds ready to go for a new Commando in 2010 and thereafter. From the get go there seemed to be a lot of unhappy people with funds gone, sometimes in full and no bike in sight after a year or more of waiting. Eventually the bikes showed up and there were enough problems that I held off longer. Then my money went elsewhere. I've followed the whole saga closely though.
I did vote to have a 961 Forum before there was one, does that and 13 years of closely following the story give me the right to post here? Hope so.

Glen
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Glen,

I certainly hope so, your posts are always very cordial.
 
worntorn said:
Well I fit the category of people who don't own a 961 and occasionally post in this forum. I used to post in defense of the 1200 Triumphs whenever some snobbish comment was made about those. I've given up on that as Triumph is doing quite well with or without my defense!
I was sitting with funds ready to go for a new Commando in 2010 and thereafter. From the get go there seemed to be a lot of unhappy people with funds gone, sometimes in full and no bike in sight after a year or more of waiting. Eventually the bikes showed up and there were enough problems that I held off longer. Then my money went elsewhere. I've followed the whole saga closely though.
I did vote to have a 961 Forum before there was one, does that and 13 years of closely following the story give me the right to post here? Hope so.

Glen
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Don’t need to own a 961 to comment here Glen, just a genuine interest as you’ve demonstrated over many years. Don’t think anybody really needed to defend Triumph here though, certainly not against ‘snobbery’. The difficulty with putting into words a personal view on bike comparisons is that they can often be intended to be read one way and interpreted another. Happens all the time on forums I guess.

The 961 - Triumph 1200 debate pops up on the forum quite often and that’s great however, for most I think the 961 was never really a value proposition - and beyond the practical, the comparison is full of imponderables. Very few 961 owners would have purchased because they believed it was the best value for money, nor of course the fastest, most reliable or capable machine - Triumph wins ‘hands down‘ in virtually all aspects.

Given that, when we have this debate and try to differentiate between the two, those imponderables often come into play. Why did we choose the 961? Special? Unique? Exclusive? Visceral? Styling? Quality? Marque loyalty……maybe a combination of these? Just not sure social standing would be top of that list for a group of greasy, lifelong, often contrary old bikers (no offence intended) with an average age of about 65.;)

Now, will someone kindly pass me the foie gras!

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TonyA said:
I am toying with the idea of getting a ZX400rr that just came out .
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Welllllll after that little off-piste foray:- yes it looks an absolute hoot. ever since they released the 250 everyone has been holding their breath for the 400. The only gripe seems to be the price. I currently have a 1991 zxr400 which I have been setting up as a track bike whose primary goal in life is not to kill me but provide a bit of bonkers cheap fun. The availability of good spares is the only problem.
961 Design Philosophy
 
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