961 Design Philosophy

acotrel

acotrel

Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
13,186
Country flag
The design philosophy of the 962 Commando interests me..
Aircraft have similarities with motorcycles. During WW2, there were many different types aircraft created to suit many different roles. To my mind, the 961 is simply a development of the early Commando. But where is it going ?
I do not know what genre it fits into and which consumer market segment at which it is directed.
A nostalgia kick is always good - the whole British tourist industry is based on it. But is that enough to sell 961 Commandos ?
Perhaps the 961 fills a need for a sporty cruiser ?
When aircraft were purchased during WW2, tenders were called to a design specifiaction, which involved role and purpose.
 
acotrel said:
The design philosophy of the 962 Commando interests me..
Aircraft have similarities with motorcycles. During WW2, there were many different types aircraft created to suit many different roles. To my mind, the 961 is simply a development of the early Commando. But where is it going ?
I do not know what genre it fits into and which consumer market segment at which it is directed.
A nostalgia kick is always good - the whole British tourist industry is based on it. But is that enough to sell 961 Commandos ?
Perhaps the 961 fills a need for a sporty cruiser ?
When aircraft were purchased during WW2, tenders were called to a design specifiaction, which involved role and purpose.
Click to expand...
Good question , I need to ponder this .
 
acotrel said:
The design philosophy of the 962 Commando interests me..
Aircraft have similarities with motorcycles. During WW2, there were many different types aircraft created to suit many different roles. To my mind, the 961 is simply a development of the early Commando. But where is it going ?
I do not know what genre it fits into and which consumer market segment at which it is directed.
A nostalgia kick is always good - the whole British tourist industry is based on it. But is that enough to sell 961 Commandos ?
Perhaps the 961 fills a need for a sporty cruiser ?
When aircraft were purchased during WW2, tenders were called to a design specifiaction, which involved role and purpose.
Click to expand...
The 961 is aimed at the older rider that has the money to buy one
And wants a modern reliable bike without the hassle of running an original commando
 
baz said:
The 961 is aimed at the older rider that has the money to buy one
And wants a modern reliable bike without the hassle of running an original commando
Click to expand...
Dreer's original intent was to create a new twin that would be functionally and visually similar to the original 750/850 commando engine. A simple 2 valve, air cooled twin with pushrod actuated valves, but without the basic design weaknesses of of the original. The central bearing support of the crankshaft was a main focus.
He believed that there were enough older, returning riders who once owned original Nortons, that the 961 could have profitable market share, especially after seeing Hinckley introduce their new Bonneville twin in 2000 reinforced this feeling.
 
He/she might also favour something a little less ubiquitous than the other mainstream, mass produced options on the market. A bike more distinctive and characterful perhaps - much closer to the visceral riding experience of the vintage machines many would have owned in their youth.
 
For me design was number 1 and still is. After being off bikes for around 10 years I was looking for a cheap electric bike to commute to work on. Then I saw a picture of the Norton and I was in the lucky position to be able to afford one. The Norton name was significant - if it was Triumph, BSA, AJS then I would have still bought. Lexmoto - not sure but would not discount it. I never owned a Brit bike when young (early 60s now) but always liked the stance of a cafe racer and I suppose the non-mainstream image. I tried so hard to like the Thruxton but it just did not have that extra something the 961 design has; I look at one and see a very good bike which would be a very sensible purchase. To me the 961 design references just trigger all the right responses and I think this is backed up by the comments from bikers and non bikers. The polished alloy, the quality components and the modern brakes/suspension setup. There is no production 'retro cafe racer' style bike to match it for me - the closes being a Unikat custom polished Thruxton.
 
After thinking about this I must be in the group of people that had a vintage Commando ( I owned , 1970 S , 1972 750 Combat , 1973 850 simultaneously for decades ) . When the 961 came out a feeling of relief came over me and I could finally let the vintage bikes be sold . Now it's not been all wine and roses with the 961 but now nearly 10 years of ownership , 18,500 miles of riding , and many upgrades later , its a reliable and satisfying machine .
 
Last edited:
I think the fact that TVS have re-introduced the 961 says two things to me. (1) The design was basically sound (2) They feel there is still a viable market for it. Judging by the number of people joining the 961 Facebook group recently I feel the public must be thinking the same. Quite a few of them awaiting delivery of their new 961 (hopefully this month).
 
Norton was my brand in the early 1970s with many excellent memories riding them with my buddies on other bikes of that era. I had seen Kenny Dreer displaying his upgraded Commandos at Del Mar in the late 1990s but was unaware that the 961 existed until around 2017. I did not have the opportunity to test one since there was very limited availability in the USA. I read what I could find at that time. I had no idea how many issues they would have but I loved the classic look, the Brit production, and got a great deal on a 1000 mile 2015 demo bike, which was shipped to me from So Cal.
The 961 to me is all about nostalgia . The design is reminiscent of the original Commando. Also it's cool to have a unique machine that draws alot of attention and questions here, where it's the only one around.
 
baz said:
The 961 is aimed at the older rider that has the money to buy one
And wants a modern reliable bike without the hassle of running an original commando
Click to expand...
"And wants a modern reliable bike without the hassle of running an original commando"

There is nothing "modern" about a 961. Its 1999 technology.
 
City Garage said:
"And wants a modern reliable bike without the hassle of running an original commando"

There is nothing "modern" about a 961. Its 1999 technology.
Click to expand...
Well ok modern compared to the commando that has its roots in the 1947 dominator
 
City Garage said:
"And wants a modern reliable bike without the hassle of running an original commando"

There is nothing "modern" about a 961. Its 1999 technology.
Click to expand...
Now come on, it's being compared to the mid 20th century tech of the 750/850s.
It certainly is "modern" compared to that.
A central main bearing crank, 5 speed gearbox, hydraulic lifters, EFI and electronic ignition, and a lubrication system with built-in oil filter, not an add-on after-thought like the 750/850.
If the proper R&D had been performed on the engine by SG, it would have been problem free.
Let's see if the NEW 961 can boast that.
 
BritTwit said:
Now come on, it's being compared to the mid 20th century tech of the 750/850s.
It certainly is "modern" compared to that.
A central main bearing crank, 5 speed gearbox, hydraulic lifters, EFI and electronic ignition, and a lubrication system with built-in oil filter, not an add-on after-thought like the 750/850.
If the proper R&D had been performed on the engine by SG, it would have been problem free.
Let's see if the NEW 961 can boast that.
Click to expand...
I think they jumped too quickly from prototype to production.
 
Boss302 said:
I think they jumped too quickly from prototype to production.
Click to expand...
No doubt, but also didn't help that SG was stingy, and bought a budget EFI system for the 961.
Saving pennies on that cursed the 961 with issues that earned it a bad reputation.
Dr Bob has the benefit of knowing this, and has hopefully avoided the same problem going forward.
 
I think its wishful thinking they are going to sell more. The resale market says so, and the current "I want a new one" customer is almost nonexistent at least among my clientele. That would be the older more affluent who would buy customers. I've said it before, Norton had one bite of the apple and they are not going to get much if any more. Those here who wanted one already bought one either new or resale. Not being negative since I have parts to sell for them and service them but you are not going to get dealers in the USA jumping on these unless they get sold at a Mahindra dealer
 
Don’t think there is one of my riding group that hasn’t had technical difficulties/breakdowns on their machines over the last 6 yrs or so. Ducati V4 spat its technical dummy several times and was awaiting a new dash before its total demise, MT10 refused to wake up after a heavy nights celebrating in Winton. BMW 1000R dead battery/charging system in the middle of nowhere (but luckily outside of a pub), Triumph 600 shedding its exhaust system etc etc.

But for a difficult to diagnose faulty positive terminal and snapped gear change rod, I would have made it home under my own steam in time for ‘tea and medals’ on every occasion, over that same period. We have those amongst our number that are hurtling towards 100K (km) on their 961’s. Faults’n’all though, I’d rather the occasional limp home on my characterful CR, than a guaranteed (likely forgettable) turbine trip home on a Honda appliance!;)

After-note - that’s gotta be the ‘kiss of death’ for tomorrow’s ride:oops:!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top