69 "S" Phoenix rises again

Dave, this looks the same arrangement that I have except that the bolt heads on mine are about half the thickness of your standard bolt heads. I bought my stand second-hand complete with mounting bolts, bushes etc, but cannot vouch for the originality, however there is definitely ample clearance for the spring with these slimmer bolts. By the way do you know that there is a conical spring that goes over the left deployment peg to make finding it easier with your foot?

Regarding the left side panel front fitting; perhaps there were two iterations depending on the year, but I have only seen left hand panels with the Dzus fastener spring arrangement.
Dave

My centre stand came from RGM, and was made by TJ Wassel Eng. It came with plated nuts, bushes, standard bolts and stainless flat washers. I replaced the nuts with nylocks and the bolts with SS, a bit longer to take the nylock. I was thinking if the spring did rub on the bolt head, I would grind it down thinner, it is not holding the motor on or any structural bolt, but it seems to be working. Yes I have the 'locating spring', but have not been able to get it on. I asked RGM about it and they said the peg may be larger than the spring will take, so I guess I'll have to do without it unless I want to turn down that peg somehow.

Re: the panel, why would they make the ignition switch panel removable? Or maybe that model has the ignition switch in another place?

Dave
69S

Thanks Dave your info and pictures make a lot of sense, i am 2-3 weeks behind you having just got my black paintwork [frame etc] back from my painter last weekend. Hopefully we can help each other.
Al

I can't vouch for the philosophy of the designer in making the left side panel removable - you can't actually get it off an S type with the pipes on regardless of the mounting method, however with Roadster livery from the same era you could remove the panel, maybe it's something to do with consistency across the model range, there is a modest amount of storage space behind it and the ignition wires on my loom offer ample flexibility for removal without disconnecting them. Dave, could you please post a photo of your mounting arrangement if it's not too much trouble? I was looking on E-bay for some time for one and all the ones I saw had Dzus springs attached, I was finally lucky enough to find a brand new panel which also had the Dzus spring attached. I am interested in seeing the alternative mounting method for future reference.

My 750S is still a little bit ahead of you. but you are catching fast. If I had half a day in my workshop I think I would crack it, but I have been traveling quite a bit recently, so I expect you to have yours fired up before mine. Keep up the good work and keep the photos coming, it seems that there are a few of us all building the same model at about the same time, the shared experience and knowledge is of great benefit.

Agreed likewise.
Al

Dave M,

Aren't the photos at the end of page 2 good enough for the dzus mounting? If not, let me know what more you would like.

I doubt if I will be done soon, I still have to sort the primary to gearbox assembly, send head off for service, install tyres, deal with mudguards which are in very poor condition. I may end up painting them for now until I can find chrome-able replacements. Need to install an oil filter and oil lines, and the wiring too, plus paint the petrol tank and install decals. I'm thinking near the end of summer here. It is starting to look like a Norton though instead of pieces all over the floor.

Dave
69S

Dave, The photos on page 2 are of the right side panel Dzus fastener arrangement, I was interested to see the left side panel mounting arrangement, as it seems that yours is different to mine, I have a Dzus fastener on both left and right side panels at the front.

I have an oil filter on mine and I found it easier to fit by using a later oil feed/scavenge manifold with both tubes of the smaller diameter, I also used a later type banjo fitting (with a smaller take off tube) for the feed side and cut off the chain oiler fitting and brazed up the hole on the smaller banjo fitting, this allowed sufficient flexibility to route the hoses in an appropriate manner for the oil filter kit.

Left panel is mounted with a 1/4-28x1" bolt and nut with a spacer, I upgraded to SS and nylock and plated the spacer. Rear mounts are same as right side with the rubber gaskets into brackets off the frame and the battery tray. As you can see from the pics, there is an extra hole, I don't think it was used on mine. Of course the dzus fastener would not fit in that 1/4" hole on mine either. As you might be able to see, there are holes in the panel mounting for a dzus spring though.





Yes, I crimped that little chain oiler off the smaller banjo long ago, soldered it shut. I will have to deal with the oil lines when I get there.

Dave
69S

Aligned the rear rim today. Since the bike is mostly apart it was pretty easy. Assembled the rear wheel parts. Had to remove PC in the groves where the rear spindles go through. Got it all set up and was wondering how to do it. Found a piece of aluminum tubing and held it across the top rims, over the battery cover and up and next to the steering head. Since the steering head is 10mm smaller than the rim, just had to check each side for 5mm. Not hard, but very critical with the adjuster, just 1/8 of a turn would throw it out about 1-2mm at the front. Then checked the rim for center on the bike and remembered Ludwig said to center it on the frame center tube. How to do that? Well, nothing including the engine cradle is centered and the swingarm is useless to measure against, so I noticed that the Z-plates seemed to be centered on the frame and were parallel once tightened. Just measured from the rim to the outside of each Z-plate and the rim was 4mm off center to the right, loosened the spokes on the right side 1/2 turn and tightened the left side spokes 1/2 turn and now is less than 1/2mm difference, good enough for me. Checked alignment and adjusted again, not much off. Checked runout on the rims and all seems ok, so when the tyres and tubes come maybe tomorrow, they can go on.



Dave
69S

After setting up the rear wheel, I decided there must be a way to mark something at the rear so I can align the wheel later without that long tube going all the way up to the steering head, besides bunches of things would have to come off to do that. I decided to mark the bracket that the rear of the large tube goes to. I used a couple of squares and made marks straight up from the sides of the tube, marked the center and then marked how the rear rim should be in relation to the center of the tube. Then I discovered that the Z-plates were not centered on the rear of the tube, so that last post was a bad idea. According to these measurements, the rear rim wanted to be moved to the right by about 3mm, so I again loosened the left spokes and tightened the right spokes until the rim nearly lined up with the marks. Used the tube to see how the rim was aligned with the steering head again, and it was pointed to the left about 2mm, so again I adjusted the right adjuster to align the rim to center it on the steering head. When I did that, the straight edge across the rims were exactly in alignment with the outside marks from the center of the tube. I think this is about as good as I can do. Who knows how straight or crooked this frame is? I don't have the equipment to measure any of that, so I am going to go with what I have. Think I will make some permanent marks on the frame so I can use a straight edge against the rim or tyre so when the bike is together I will have a reference, as long as I move the rear wheel adjusters equally, things should stay in good alignment with the frame main tube.



Dave
69S

A little more progress today. Front tyre mounted. Rear tyre mounted but the safety lug got over the bead on the rear wheel and I don't want to deal with it. Going to the bike shop in Warrenton tomorrow for fixing.



Installed inner chaincase and discovered I cannot find the shims I want to place between the mainshaft bushing and the clutch locating clip. Looked all day for them and will have to re-order them Monday if I don't find them over the weekend. Found 2 SS washers that made up the clearance between the long center bolt for the chaincase.



They were just a few thou over the clearance, I guess better than under? Will have to wait until I can get the shims on the mainshaft until I can put the drive sprocket on and the clutch basket. The workshop manual does not clearly tell you how to install the shims and things on the drive sprocket, but after the drive sprocket goes the shim, the spacer with the cut out towards the outside so the stator key will go in and then the rotor according to Clymers.

Next comes the clutch.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

They were just a few thou over the clearance, I guess better than under?

Click to expand...

How thick did the gasket end up being? How did you measure the clearance for the washers?

I didn't measure the gasket nor the washers. I put hobot's Hylomar on it and before that I installed it with the gasket several times, tried a few washers and determined the 2 SS washers I had were the closest to being right for the motor/case clearance. The factory shim is 0.027, so how close can you get? I think I am closer than that. Maybe .005 to .008 over size at the center bolt?

Dave
69S

Hehe, Hylomar is actually a Rolls Royce original product.

Primary case only needs to not be in bad bind nor foul anything
so you are spot on as anyone else shimming.

While you are involved in this area, one handy hidden mod is
to replace the three front case mount bolts for loctited in studs.
Make fitting case easier and plug oil weep when ever case removed.

The real task in this area is getting the stator ring square
and spaced with rotor in about its center and even as
can gaped. Only stator ring adjust beside just washer/shims
is a proper applied hammer to the whole unit or each
post as needed. I zip tie the stator lead to center post
so aims into the grommet and stays clear of chain.

Hope to be doing the same task again on Trixie in a week of 2 too.

hobot

Boy, if I understand your Dixie-Speak, 3 locktighted studs in the motor case and nuts on top? That is a pretty thin area to deal with, and the clearance to the crank is real tight there on the inside, I have seen it. This is not a race bike, a pavement pounder. The PO apparently had an issue because the bottom right bolt is a 3/8-20, not a BSF. I may remove the bolts and permatex them, but I am not sure about the studs, I don't have them anyhow.

How do you apply the Hylomar, I just use a brush and apply it real thin on both sides of the gasket. Very strange stuff.

Thanks,
Dave
69S

ugh yeah Dixieland speak, when I start typing with static its
because I've done some hard labor or had a spill and cuts
blood flow to my real default autistic state. Mowed
creek bank to get to big felled tree cut in 10-12" checkers in PU
out and stacked.

Auto parts has SAE course and fine thread inch long studs
that work a treat in those three oil weep holes.
You never need to take em out so set in good.
Studs are considered a bit strong than bolt and case
get some loading by vibration road loads.
When ever you deal with gear box out or the front
drive chain sprocket alone, case needs out of the way.

Its a good idea to up the 19T to 20 or 21, especially
if liking the easy torque zooming and cruising relaxing
riding a Commando is so good at.

Best wishes on real task to come, alternator rotor fit.

hobot

DogT said:

Click to expand...

Dave,

It's been a very long time ago that I tried this, but I had a chance to check the alignment with the bike bare as you have it now. I took off the shocks and brought the rear wheel up to measure against the backbone. Bringing the wheel up introduces tilt or the vertical aspect into it but if they are both right, alignment and tilt, then it will look right if things are as they should be. Actually though, I think we would be hard pressed to be able to tell riding the bikes if we've gotten it reasonably close and dead nuts right on.

The more I thought about hobot's idea of the studs in the crank, the more I liked it, so while I was in town I got some. Got the rear tyre fixed, no charge, picked up a few washers for the oil return banjo that I had lost. Local bike shop found some that were close and I can make them fit. Nice thing about the studs besides hobot's thoughts is that I can put a standard UNF nut on it and tighten with a standard socket. Thought about using lock nuts on them, but the second nut only catches a few threads, so I need to get 3 of those tab washers. I test fitted the rotor and stator, no problems, good clearance and fairly even all around. As soon as I get the tab washers and the washer for inside the clutch locating clip, the chaincase assembly should be ready to finish up unless there is an issue with the clutch plates.



Dave
69S

DogT said:

...Who knows how straight or crooked this frame is? I don't have the equipment to measure any of that, so I am going to go with what I have.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

If you take the forks and steering stem out you can stick a long, large dowel (aluminium tube, closet pole, broomstick) through the steering head bearings. Rotate the dowel and see where it draws a circle (broomsticks are not always dead straight). If the circle is lined up with the center tube, and the center of the isolastic mounting plates (see fig. F4 in the manual), it should be good.

Greg

DogT said:

The more I thought about hobot's idea of the studs in the crank, the more I liked it, so while I was in town I got some.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Dave be sure the studs are flush (or slightly beneath) the surface of the nuts otherwise the chain could grind the studs!