69 "S" Phoenix rises again

Andrea,
I am still using my points and even the original coils and capacitors. I'm sure they will fail at some point, but the AAU looks good. I was thinking about a hose off that hole in the oil tank to the ground too. I used to get a lot of leakage out of it. I only have 10 miles on it since the rebuild and so far no leaks. It used to leak everywhere, out of the primary case, the crankcase, but I have all new gaskets and used a good sealer on them and the crank flanges. I have heard it also helps to not fill the tank up to the top mark, but somewhere between the marks.

Does your breather hose from the engine go into a top hat thing on top of the oil tank or beside the top hat thingy? There were 2 styles of oil tanks for the 69/70 models. Mine goes right into the top hat.

I see you are near the coast somewhere. Reminds me of when I was an infant, my dad was with the Military Asvisory Group in Trieste in 1945/6. I was only 2-3 years old, but can remember some of it. I still have my dad's felt Borsalino. Where are you located?



Ciao,
Dave

My oil tank is exactly like yours. The breather hose goes into the top hat.

It is true what you say about oil leaks. I filled up the oil tank to the top mark both on the roadster and on the 'S' I had oil leaks. Now the oil is about 75% between min and max and I do not have significant leaks. The roadster just have a little leak from the valve cover, maybe I will change the gasket. The 'S' has a little leak from the primary case, but not significant.

I am located in Naples in the south of Italy. Very nice weather, it is possible to ride 365 days a year but unfortunately not so many good streets or places to go.

I made a mistake in a previous post typing the VIN number, the correct one is 134345, motorbike produced in Dec '69.

How many Norton 'S' do you think were produced? I read in this forum about 3000 between the first and the last VIN but including also Fastback and 'R'.
In Italy it is very hard to find a real 'S'. In the past people used to change 'S' in Roadster but now as the 'S' has a higher value they change a lot of roadster in 'S'.

Andrea, I think you are about correct with the numbers produced. It seems the S type is becoming more popular here in US too. When I started my project, parts were hard to come by, but now you can get everything.

Got an unused 1970 license plate today to use as an antique plate. It's smaller than the Maryland plates I had, so I'm going to have to adjust the composite plate it mounts on or make a new one. You can see I had to make adjustments for the Maryland plate too.



It's getting time to start getting it ready for the good days we may have in March, and especially April. I've been pumping iron and doing the exercise bike plus squats and all. Makes me sore, but is good for me, plus I'm cutting out a quite a few Margaretta's and loosing weight, down to 185 today.

Dave
69S

Dave, I suspect the bike in the photo you took in Taiwan is a Japanese copy of a BMW R25, a company called 'Lilac' made quite a few models based on BMW singles and twins, although I have to say that I don't recognise the logo on the tank, however the Japanese motorcycle industry during this time was characterised by bankruptcies and takeovers of the smaller manufacturers which finally left the big 4 manufacturers that we know of today. I am sure that during the cold war the Taiwanese would not have bought anything from the Eastern block - where they were also making BMW copies - and certainly not from Communist China who were busy making copies of copies of BMWs. The Japanese manufacturers had a strong presence in the market throughout South East Asia and I can remember seeing Lilacs, Meguros, Rabbit scooters and Bridgestones throughout my childhood.

Dentino3, if you are coming through Hong Kong you would be very welcome to see my bikes, although the S-Type is not yet registered for the road. I will be in Shanghai within the next two weeks, but otherwise should be in HK. My e-mail address is [email='chiuchowgum@hotmail.com]'chiuchowgum@hotmail.com[/email]'.

dentino3 said:

Dave,

I thought I would post a congratulations on the fine work you have done. I have a 69 S, S/N 134717 dated 12/69 waiting for me in Raleigh. I bought my bike in 83 from the friend of a law school roommate who delivered the bike to me in laundry baskets. I rode it all ratted out and cobbled together for years and after leaving it ignored for far too long, have a complete rebuild set up as my summer project. I'm sitting here in China assembling parts and knowledge in preparation for the summers work and your thread has been a great inspiration. I'll post photos and chart my progress as soon as I return in May. You have certainly set a lofty standard.

Thanks

Mike

Click to expand...

Mine is 131721 only 4 units after yours. They were probably on the line at the same time.
Bruce

Bruce,
You're off by 4000 to Mike. The one nearest one I know to you is Tom 131633 in PA.

Dave
69S

Decided to improve the front shoes (can't be in too much of a rush). Per Ron L, got some 60 grit, cut into 1 3/8" strips, takes 2 pieces plus another 2" or so, glued them to the drum with 'Tacky Glue' from the sewing shop, water soluble. It takes a half hour or so to set up, otherwise the sandpaper tends to break loose. Anyhow, you can see that I have gotten about half way there on the front shoe, the rear shoe (lower arm) is complete, it appeared that the front shoe had never been making contact with the drum. Even the rear shoe (lower arm) was only making about 3" of contact to start. I'm hoping for much improved braking. Only thing holding me back now is the insurance and getting the wife to the DMV to register it in both our names. And my courage to take it on the road.



Shingles (chicken pox) has been holding me up for a month or so.

Dave
69S

Got registration, tags and title today. $60 for a permanent antique plate. There was a little issue with the antique plate number, but it went through. No trouble with the non-VIN Ready to roll, nothing like procrastinating.



Dave
69S

Cool. She's legal. Funny how '70 was a black plate and '71 was white in VA.

Better put some miles on -- mufflers starting to rust looking in the back. Yippee! Ride it!

Russ

Congratulations Dave! Now you get to ride it.

Nice work Dave!

Well done Dave! I look forward to hearing about the shakedown.

Mark.

Looking good, sounds like you're ready for your shake down runs. Perhaps when I get mine going this summer I'll ride over and take a gander in person, I'm in Southern, MD. about 3 hours away. Cj

Finally!! Got everything ready, all but fuel, and turn on the ignition to check the lights, no headlight, no taillight, no ignition (checked with voltmeter) Ugh, now what. Traced voltage from battery to ammeter, but not to ignition switch. Messing with the brown/white wire, pull on it inside the headlamp and the wire comes out of the harness and shorts itself on the shell, blowing the fuse. Apparently this had been repaired previously, not known to me and it came apart. Spliced in a piece of 18 ga. with crimp on connectors, everything ok. Filter box on and everything, drained the sump, looked like all 3 quarts were in there, put back in the tank. Starts on about 4th kick with a bit of oil dribbling into the tank, takes about a minute for it to start flowing solid at 2-3K. Run it a bit, planning on riding tomorrow, but tighten up the exhaust with my 4' bar, find a loose upper shock bolt because the seat knob won't tighten. Tighten the exhaust nuts again, look for leaks, a drip off the connector on the timing cover where it feeds the hose to the top end. Not going to deal with that now. Decide to take it around through the neighbors yard, down her drive and then mine, around the barn and back to the house through her yard. Tighten everything again, look for leaks. Decide to put on the helmet and go for a ride. This time down my hill (20 degree for a bit) not bad, out on the state road and pavement, plan to go to the Post Office and back, about 3 miles each way. Get to PO, its running so good, I go on and turn on Hume Road towards Flint Hill, go to a neighbor's drive, turn around, back to Hume, then down to Jerry's Shop, a corner not far away, maybe 4 miles, back to Hume and drive down my drive and up my steep hill in 2nd gear. Seemed to run just fine, the speedo dropped out a few times, but seemed to clear up, but that may be a problem. Didn't get it past about 50-55 or 3000 rpm except in lower gears and it seems to have a bit more buzz in the handle bars than I remember. Shifting up was great, went right in gear, only issue was shifting down from 4th to 3rd, had to be very positive or it didn't want to go. Carburation seemed fine, no fuel leaks, no excessive straw or blue on the pipes, no flat spots, nothing just seemed fine. Need to get the idle right, as it warms up it seems to go up a bit.

Only issue is that darn banjo that hooks the head lines to the timing cover, does anyone know where to get nylon gaskets for that fitting? I even put Hylomar on those gaskets because it's been leaking, just a small drip, but it's the only one. That copper gasket for the sump was dripping too, I replaced it with a nylon one I got from DomiRacer, they're cheap too.

WooHoo, about 15 miles today. Sidriley may come up tomorrow and we'll try again. They don't call me Mr. Excitement for nothing. I didn't piss my pants either, it wasn't bad, but I wasn't going 70 and there's hardly any traffic here.

Now I've had a Pilsner in celebration, so no more riding.

Dave
69S

After leaving the avgas in the tank overnight, I filled it up pretty much with what I had because I wanted to go to the airport and get another 10 gallons ($50). Noticed when I came back it looked like one of the petcocks was sweating, I thought it was from being nearly 90° F and humid today, but then noticed it had the blue tint to it. One of the dang petcocks was leaking and it was real hard to figure out from where. Most likely the fitting into the tank. So I drained the tank, removed both petcocks, slathered Permatex Aircraft gasket sealant on the threads and the top of the stat-o-seal and I'm letting it set up tonight. I'll fill it up tomorrow and see how it goes. If it's good, I'll try another run early before it gets hot again. I hope it's not the petcock itself leaking. Maybe it's time for a new steel tank?

Dave
69S

I've got the fuel leaks sorted. Another 15 mile trip today, and of course all is not perfect. Starts first kick now, I could probably start it in my Crocks. It ran fine and strong, still has a tight 4th to 3rd shift, but better since I loosened up the primary and drive chains. Valves were a bit noisy, so I adjusted the lash, seems better, there was a couple of them slightly loose. Non-perfection is slinging grease off the chain, to be expected. I do seem to have a bit of a leak still either the pressure switch or the banjo under it, just a drip. Seems to be a leak from the lines to the oil filter, will have to remove the filter assembly to tighten that, and maybe a leak out of the primary inner to crank gasket, kind of hard to tell, but I get clean oil on the bottom most area of the engine where that bottom engine stud is. Doesn't appear to be the crank flange.

Such is life, I almost think I like the wrenching better than the riding at this time in life, still some buzz on the handle bars, but at 3K in 4th, puts me around 50mph which is about all I want to do right now, especially on these back country roads with no center line. Doesn't affect my left hand which is half numb from a fractured C6-C7 joint, right hand is fine and does go to sleep a bit. Hope the buzz clears up, but am still thinking about the belt drive and Hemmings vernier. Did get a cramp in the calf, but I almost think it helps my perpetual sore back and neck from the fracture.

Another low humidity day tomorrow, so it'll be out again. I love it when it starts first kick.

Dave
69S

Check tightness of cyl base nuts and retorque head when cold and readjust valves afterwards. I did it after first ride then 50, 200, 500 miles -- a bit obsessive and excessive but I don't have any leaks (at least in those areas). Valve adjustment only changed very slightly each time but eventually it all settled in. I used a paper base gasket and flame-ring head gasket so mine may have been squishier than some. This is the way I do it and I found it works for me.

I think we're probably all excited to see you get it out and use up a whole tank of gas in one ride. You have tools. You probably have a backpack to carry all of them. (Bring exhaust nut wrench.) You know the bike inside and out so go for it. Feel that 2nd gear 750 blast with not even much throttle! Hobot will tell ya.

Russ

Thanks Russ, yeah, I know that 2nd gear, 25 to 70 all in one whack, pulls your earlobes off. Hopefully the leaks will sort, the one that worries me is the one on the bottom most stud on the engine, I think it goes through the cradle. Seems to be coming out of the left side of the stud. Can't figure that, because I don't think that even goes into the crank, but maybe if the Hylomar didn't get around the stud flange, oil could get out the end of the stud?

It's been 30 years being on a bike, so I'm taking it real careful. We've had some heavy rain and still gravel on the curves around here, so am being cautious where I go and make sure I know where I'm going and what's there. It makes me feel like I'm 25 again when I'm riding, unlike when I drive my wife's Saab station wagon, that makes me feel like 80.

Saw a small bear, maybe 250 lbs, on the way back tonight, solid black, it stopped in the road, so I honked at it and it went right up a tree about 30' and looked at me. I didn't try to hit it. They are so cool. Some guy on one of those hogs passed me as I was slowing up to turn into my driveway.

Dave
69S

Found 2 leaks, oil lines to filter, and very bottom stud on engine. Had to remove rear wheel to get at the filter assembly and take it off to get the nut driver on the hose clamps (jubilee clips). Not sure why bottom stud is weeping, but I loosened the nut on the weepy side, forced some RTV into the hole, put washer and nut back on. We'll see. I had oil on the bottom of the RS exhaust header at the front most part, but it must have been after the run because it wasn't smoking. Not sure where that's coming from, rocker covers seem good, got the neoprene gasket on them. I stalled the bike when I rode it up to the garage last time, and commenced to leave the ignition switch on for the afternoon. Ran the battery down to 4V, charged it overnight and it seems OK, but I'm doing a static timing in case something got messed up with the points, coil resistance seems good. Something is strange because the timing now seems way off, I'll get it sorted tomorrow. It was sure running good though. I think the speedo going in and out is the Smiths gearbox at the rear wheel, not sure the dogs are engaging in the slots in the wheel part correctly, I need to check that somehow, I guess I could remove the cable from the speedo, turn the wheel and see if I can get any looseness in the cable rotation. I get enough of a buzz on the handlebars at 3K it puts my hands to sleep, I may have to spring for the Hemmings iso adjusters.

Boy, I'm glad I don't have to ride in traffic like Swoosh. This things a brute, at least for me.

Dave
69S