Shindengen SH775 (2018)

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Had to wait for my moment.
I have some new ones as well, wanna see?
....nevermind:)
 
Schwany said:
That took long enough.

I expected those melted battery images 3 pages back. :)
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I’ve seen those pictures before and more and in fact there are a couple people on this forum that have complained about the batteries but if you do a little digging you’ll find out one of them had loose wiring and another had the bike still negative ground and left the battery charger plug cap loose and the exposed metal tab grounded to the frame and shorted the battery.

I think you will find that if your wiring and components are done correctly that lithium batteries are a benefit.


it’s simple if you don’t trust lithium batteries then don’t use them but I think you’ll find a lot of people who do use them with no issue. Also look at Matt’s motorcycles at CnW. Lithium Batteries installed and lithium batteries are recommended when you purchase his starter kits. Haven’t seen any complaints about that

If you’re not comfortable with doing the electrical or have any misunderstandings about what needs to be done then find a shop that can help you with it just don’t rely on the Internet forums especially when a lot of the responses are from people who don’t have history dealing with lithium batteries or the theory behind how the charging system works with both positive and negative grounded bikes
 
City Garage said:
with what battery? lithium use tri spark or shindengen if you have the space and lead battery you can use a podtronics or wassel power module. again depends on your needs.
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Odessy pc680 16ah , Lucas Rita ignition and 8w daytime led running lights
I did have a podtronics but with mixed riding IE sustained 80mph plus and town riding riding the battery will run down
I did have a varta ytx20l 18ah fitted previously with the same results
 
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I don't understand the requirement to effectively have the battery charging at idle speed. Surely the whole idea of a battery on a vehicle is to power the electrics when there isn't sufficient output from the charging system? If a Lithium battery cannot do that then it seems unsuitable for the application.
 
worntorn said:
Mine worked ok thru Washington and Oregon then quit about halfway down the California coast. That was more of a melting problem, likely due to inadequate charging, got stuck in some Ca. traffic jams.


Glen
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Electrickery is very close to the top of the list of things I don’t understand very well…

I can relate to / understand how a poorly regulated overcharging situation could melt a battery, but I’m struggling to understand how an undercharging situation can? I would have thought that simply resulted in a flat battery ?

In simple layman’s terms, using short words and speaking slowly, can someone explain how undercharging can lead to a meltdown ?
 
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Lithium batteries have high CCA but quite low AH compared to traditional batteries - so perhaps the minimum charging recommenation is just ensuring people don't get stuck with a flat battery if pootling around all day??
 
Nortoniggy said:
I don't understand the requirement to effectively have the battery charging at idle speed. Surely the whole idea of a battery on a vehicle is to power the electrics when there isn't sufficient output from the charging system? If a Lithium battery cannot do that then it seems unsuitable for the application.
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I’d like to see evidence that they can’t. I know guys who use Shoria batteries on race bikes with total loss ign systems. I would honestly expect a Shoria (or similar) battery to power an idling Norton for hours…?
 
Fast Eddie said:
I’d like to see evidence that they can’t. I know guys who use Shoria batteries on race bikes with total loss ign systems. I would honestly expect a Shoria (or similar) battery to power an idling Norton for hours…?
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I'm not sure but it's likely that Shorai understands how their batteries work better than any of us posting, including sellers. Afterall, we aren't capable of building our own Lithium batteries, we go to them for that.
So while it's quite possible that folks might get away with ignoring their idle requirement, it's likely there for a reason.
After destroying an expensive Alton and reg/rec, I will follow the battery manufacturer's requirements if using a Lithium battery in the future.
Regarding the undercharge question, all I can say is that we were stuck in heavy traffic when the battery melted. At idle the bike discharges, as does likely every old bike discussed here, despite momentary voltage readings that might make people believe otherwise.


Glen
 
Nortoniggy said:
I don't understand the requirement to effectively have the battery charging at idle speed. Surely the whole idea of a battery on a vehicle is to power the electrics when there isn't sufficient output from the charging system? If a Lithium battery cannot do that then it seems unsuitable for the application.
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The key here is to keep the battery in a state of charge where it will perform its intended purpose, including powering an electric starter. The 13.1 volt figure represents an 80% charge capacity, and 12.9 volts is only 20%. If you drain the battery to 12.9 volts it will likely not start an e-start motor. So, if your charging system can maintain 13.1 volts even at idle, you can be confident that it'll always have enough power to start your motor.

My battery will dip below 13 volts if I idle for a couple minutes with lights on. But the engine stays running and once I'm back to road speed (even 2000 rpm) the voltage comes up again and I've never had it fail to start.
 
maylar said:
The key here is to keep the battery in a state of charge where it will perform its intended purpose, including powering an electric starter. The 13.1 volt figure represents an 80% charge capacity, and 12.9 volts is only 20%. If you drain the battery to 12.9 volts it will likely not start an e-start motor. So, if your charging system can maintain 13.1 volts even at idle, you can be confident that it'll always have enough power to start your motor.

My battery will dip below 13 volts if I idle for a couple minutes with lights on. But the engine stays running and once I'm back to road speed (even 2000 rpm) the voltage comes up again and I've never had it fail to start.
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What battery do you use?
 
worntorn said:
I still haven't seen report of a measured 13.1 volt or greater charging system output at idle with any of the commonly available stators for the Norton/BSA/Triumph. The modern Alton alternator replacements for older dynamo bikes are great, but also fail to meet the Lithium requirement.
The Trispark reg won't fix this, although it should help with overall Lithium charging by having a higher cutout than other regulators.
So as I see it you can sort of limp around with the Norton charging system and Lithium battery, but you aren't meeting the battery manufacturer's basic requirement. Lighten the electrical load (leds, EI) do short trips , stick to rural roads and with a bit of home charging, it could be OK. Get caught in a traffic jam and there could be a problem.
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Glen,

Don't know if this info is useful to you:

MKIII,
Lucas 3 Phase (e-bay purchase 11 yrs, came in a brown box marked Lucas. Was always suspicious if it was a knock off),
Podtronics R/R
Solid State Assimilator,
LED Headlight and tail light,
6 yr old PC625
Stock 2 brush starter 6 guage wires

After a 30 mile run
Resting voltage with bike off is 12.8v

1,100 rpm 12.4 12.5
1,500 rpm 12.9 13.0
2,000 rpm 14.5 14.5
2,500 rpm 14.5 14.5

Left col. is lights off, right col. is lights on

Pete
 
maylar said:
The key here is to keep the battery in a state of charge where it will perform its intended purpose, including powering an electric starter. The 13.1 volt figure represents an 80% charge capacity, and 12.9 volts is only 20%. If you drain the battery to 12.9 volts it will likely not start an e-start motor. So, if your charging system can maintain 13.1 volts even at idle, you can be confident that it'll always have enough power to start your motor.

My battery will dip below 13 volts if I idle for a couple minutes with lights on. But the engine stays running and once I'm back to road speed (even 2000 rpm) the voltage comes up again and I've never had it fail to start.
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If your battery is dipping below 13volts in a couple of minutes, you are about two minutes away from shutdown. All it takes is a bit of traffic delay, especially at night.
At 13.1 volts there is just 40% charge remaining.
At 12.8 +- these batteries shut off to prevent destruction. They don't always recover when charged. See Shorai 12.86volt warning below.
A 21pbeq Shorai has 7ah storage when fully topped up.
At anything below 13v there is very little juice left in the battery.

 
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I could idle in the driveway for a hour with the lights On and the voltage at the battery would be at 100% capacity. I'd be far more concerned about the engine getting too hot than the battery shutting down. I suppose I might get a surprise like a molten puddle of plastic on the ground and flames shooting out from under the seat after an hour, but I seriously doubt it.

There is a note somewhere in the documentation that came with the Antigravity battery about old charging systems like those on classic Euro bikes not being adequate for their batteries. So yep the OEM charging system on a Commando is more than likely not adequate. Fortunately, I seem to have dodged that bullet using my own wiring, the Tri-Spark MOSFET reg/rect, a dual e-coil, the Boyer ignition, LED lamps, and a LiFePO4 battery. Educated experienced guess work makes the dream work. Fear and paranoia doesn't get the same results.

I doubt I'd put a LiFEPO4 battery in a stock pristine Commando restoration. Why switch dicks in the middle of a screw?
 
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baz said:
Odessy pc680 16ah , Lucas Rita ignition and 8w daytime led running lights
I did have a podtronics but with mixed riding IE sustained 80mph plus and town riding riding the battery will run down
I did have a varta ytx20l 18ah fitted previously with the same results
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Then you have a problem somewhere. The podtronics should keep the battery charged. Maybe the AGM battery has been cycled so many times its going bad. Have you tested the battery?
 
Schwany said:
I could idle in the driveway for a hour with the lights On and the voltage at the battery would be at 100% capacity. I'd be far more concerned about the engine getting too hot than the battery shutting down. I suppose I might get a surprise like a molten puddle of plastic on the ground and flames shooting out from under the seat after an hour, but I seriously doubt it.

There is a note somewhere in the documentation that came with the Antigravity battery about old charging systems like those on classic Euro bikes not being adequate for their batteries. So yep the OEM charging system on a Commando is more than likely not adequate. Fortunately, I seem to have dodged that bullet using my own wiring, the Tri-Spark MOSFET reg/rect, a dual e-coil, the Boyer ignition, LED lamps, and a LiFePO4 battery. Educated experienced guess work makes the dream work. Fear and paranoia doesn't get the same results.

I doubt I'd put a LiFEPO4 battery in a Commando. Why switch dicks in the middle of a screw?
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This is absolutely correct. The OEM system on early motorcycles wont be compatible with lithium. Its not just early British motorcycles, early Japanese as well. This is why the modern upgrade is needed.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Electrickery is very close to the top of the list of things I don’t understand very well…

I can relate to / understand how a poorly regulated overcharging situation could melt a battery, but I’m struggling to understand how an undercharging situation can? I would have thought that simply resulted in a flat battery ?

In simple layman’s terms, using short words and speaking slowly, can someone explain how undercharging can lead to a meltdown ?
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I will use big words .... IT WON'T :)

Meltdown is caused by thermal runaway...
 
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