Shindengen SH775 (2018)

gforce said:

@Schwany yes, i'm no expert but I've got it stuck in my head, and I am always worried about it failing when i'm out now.

I have nothing to compare with, as the bike came with a POD, and I didn't start digging into it until after it had failed on me.

But, I will for sure do the same check when I put the zener on - I am a big fan of data, and where possible only changing one thing at a time.


Anyway, the reason I commented in the first place but forgot to say was that I believe the SH775 is different to the Tri-Spark MOSFET, so not a comparable alternative.
These are used on big Polaris ATVS that have big lightbars and winches as options - so the charging rate varies a lot.
They use fixed magnet alternators because they are more efficient, so the SH775 takes the load off when the batteries are charged, instead of shunting.

The MOSFET doesn't do that - so stick with the SH775 if that's what you're looking for.
I should have bought the SH775 instead of the Tri-Spark, as the more I read about it, the more it looks like a better option.
But they are both expensive, so I'm not going to get another one now.
...my two zeners were less than ten dollars for the pair shipped.

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gforce said:

@Schwany yes, i'm no expert but I've got it stuck in my head, and I am always worried about it failing when i'm out now.

I have nothing to compare with, as the bike came with a POD, and I didn't start digging into it until after it had failed on me.

But, I will for sure do the same check when I put the zener on - I am a big fan of data, and where possible only changing one thing at a time.


Anyway, the reason I commented in the first place but forgot to say was that I believe the SH775 is different to the Tri-Spark MOSFET, so not a comparable alternative.
These are used on big Polaris ATVS that have big lightbars and winches as options - so the charging rate varies a lot.
They use fixed magnet alternators because they are more efficient, so the SH775 takes the load off when the batteries are charged, instead of shunting.

The MOSFET doesn't do that - so stick with the SH775 if that's what you're looking for.
I should have bought the SH775 instead of the Tri-Spark, as the more I read about it, the more it looks like a better option.
But they are both expensive, so I'm not going to get another one now.
...my two zeners were less than ten dollars for the pair shipped.

Click to expand...

baz said:

The reason I was looking for a sh775 is because I thought it is would give my stator (Alton) an easier life compared to the shunt type ?

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Triton Thrasher said:

Shunt type regulation gives the stator an easy enough time. It’s been doing so on Brit bikes since about 1965.

Before that, the 6V coil switching system shunted four of the six stator coils in daylight running.

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baz said:

Are the Alton stators as hardy as a Lucas one do you think?

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Schwany said:

I could be wrong, but doesn't generating electricity cause heat in an alternator? The stator is bound to be cooler running no load with the outer primary cover removed. Maybe try the red hot stator test after you swap out the Tri-Spark reg/rect and see if anything changes.

I was going to remove the comment because it may still be generating something disconnected, but thought Id leave it since I'm not an electrical engineer, and don't feel like googling the answer.

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City Garage said:

We have followed this thread for a long time and there ought to be some qualifications before answering some of the questions posed by people and proof that you have actually done/ said/ owned or had experience with whatever the topic is.

We have installed many of the newer Tri Spark MOSFET 20 Amp Voltage Rectifier Regulator(blue) with lithium batteries from both Anti Gravity and Shorai with no issues. The standard black had been covered before should probably never be used(because of fluctuating voltage, how they convert power, etc other issues) since the new one came out but they work great on the lead batteries

Tri Spark clearly states Regulates the charging voltage to 14.5 volts - suitable for 12 volt batteries Which is fine for todays lithium batteries. Is it optimal no but it works just fine especially when you are looking for something smaller.

Nowhere in the instructions for the Tri Spark does it say don't use on lithium https://www.trispark.com.au/assets/files/VR 0030 installation instructions V1_1.pdf

We have installed a lot of lithium batteries in other motorcycles including early Harleys and other motorcycles that have high set points on their regulator like we find regularly on Indians with no issues. Shorai knows this as you will see below

We have built motorcycles with such little power draw (led headlamps and bulbs, etc) that we have even swapped three wire stators back to 2 wire because the extra power was not needed or increased to meet the needs of cold weather gear etc added to the load.

Shorai batteries get put into every type of vehicle charging systems from motorcycles, boats and all types of trucks/autos and the only parameters in the manuals are "Shorai Batteries require a charging system output of 13.1 Volts or higher at idle, and must not exceed 15.2 volts at maximum output."

Also look at the other spec for charging "Floating battery voltage at 14.6-14.8V" So 14.5 is bad then? Really?

How many people buy these lithium batteries really check their charging system at idle or under load or just listen to the guy at the auto parts counter that say yes this works great and high CCA?

Wire sizes play a part, distance plays a part, as well as the connectors for draw, heat, resistance. Is the stator the correct size for everything you are running?

And for those worried about the set points greater than 14.5v then head over to Ricks Motorsports Electrics. We consider them the gold standard for aftermarket stators and regulators.

They have a line of lithium regulators for all types of motorcycles that have a lower set point of 14v +- .2 so effectively 14.2volts. https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Rectifier-Regulator-Lithium-Compatible-14_103

Also with Ricks you are getting what you pay for and not just hoping you will not a fake Shindengen. Personally the sized and big fat plugs that come with those don't excite us since there are smaller better options available. Also do you really need something that is 30 or 50 amp rated?

There is more to changing/or up grading a charging system than just guess work.

And our last tips. Before changing anything actually figure out what your draw is and what your current output is and what you really need, don't guess add it up. If you find something failing check ALL the wiring, the connectors, fuses, fuse holders, and the grounds. 95% of the time we find its something in that area that is causing extra resistance

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worntorn said:

Is there an aftermarket type charging system that will produce 13.1 volts or greater at idle (1000rpm+-) available for the Commando?
My stock RM23 does not.

Glen

Click to expand...

City Garage said:

We have followed this thread for a long time and there ought to be some qualifications before answering some of the questions posed by people and proof that you have actually done/ said/ owned or had experience with whatever the topic is.

We have installed many of the newer Tri Spark MOSFET 20 Amp Voltage Rectifier Regulator(blue) with lithium batteries from both Anti Gravity and Shorai with no issues. The standard black had been covered before should probably never be used(because of fluctuating voltage, how they convert power, etc other issues) since the new one came out but they work great on the lead batteries

Tri Spark clearly states Regulates the charging voltage to 14.5 volts - suitable for 12 volt batteries Which is fine for todays lithium batteries. Is it optimal no but it works just fine especially when you are looking for something smaller.

Nowhere in the instructions for the Tri Spark does it say don't use on lithium https://www.trispark.com.au/assets/files/VR 0030 installation instructions V1_1.pdf

We have installed a lot of lithium batteries in other motorcycles including early Harleys and other motorcycles that have high set points on their regulator like we find regularly on Indians with no issues. Shorai knows this as you will see below

We have built motorcycles with such little power draw (led headlamps and bulbs, etc) that we have even swapped three wire stators back to 2 wire because the extra power was not needed or increased to meet the needs of cold weather gear etc added to the load.

Shorai batteries get put into every type of vehicle charging systems from motorcycles, boats and all types of trucks/autos and the only parameters in the manuals are "Shorai Batteries require a charging system output of 13.1 Volts or higher at idle, and must not exceed 15.2 volts at maximum output."

Also look at the other spec for charging "Floating battery voltage at 14.6-14.8V" So 14.5 is bad then? Really?

How many people buy these lithium batteries really check their charging system at idle or under load or just listen to the guy at the auto parts counter that say yes this works great and high CCA?

Wire sizes play a part, distance plays a part, as well as the connectors for draw, heat, resistance. Is the stator the correct size for everything you are running?

And for those worried about the set points greater than 14.5v then head over to Ricks Motorsports Electrics. We consider them the gold standard for aftermarket stators and regulators.

They have a line of lithium regulators for all types of motorcycles that have a lower set point of 14v +- .2 so effectively 14.2volts. https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Rectifier-Regulator-Lithium-Compatible-14_103

Also with Ricks you are getting what you pay for and not just hoping you will not a fake Shindengen. Personally the sized and big fat plugs that come with those don't excite us since there are smaller better options available. Also do you really need something that is 30 or 50 amp rated?

There is more to changing/or up grading a charging system than just guess work.

And our last tips. Before changing anything actually figure out what your draw is and what your current output is and what you really need, don't guess add it up. If you find something failing check ALL the wiring, the connectors, fuses, fuse holders, and the grounds. 95% of the time we find its something in that area that is causing extra resistance

Click to expand...

worntorn said:

So none of this works for any last Century Norton as we still cannot meet the basic 13.1 volt at idle requirement.

Glen

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Schwany said:

Proof that you've done what you are talking about on the internet? What is this world coming to? I thought forums were a free for all speed contest for google search experts.

I use a Tri-Spark MOSFET reg/rect with a Antigravity 401 LiFePO4 battery, and an old 2 wire alternator on my Norton. Battery shows 14.4-14.5V at idle. I've gone over two mountain passes with that setup in 80 degree weather, not dawdling. Battery and regulator don't get any warmer than my seat. 1300 trouble free miles so far. The Antigravity 401 is a very small battery. About the size of a thick wallet. It has enough amperage to power the Boyer ignition at kick startup and run LED lamps. Not even close to being big enough for an electric start Norton IMO.

I guessed that it would all work for my use, and it does. All my work is guess work. Good thing I'm not working with rocket engines.

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City Garage said:

It depends on your setup but we routinely are at or above 13 volts at idle with a two wire slightly more with a three. As you turn on lights etc. the volts at idle will go down and that's a concern for lithium if you idle for an extended period of time because then you might draw the battery down. Not many people idle for that long to cause any issues

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worntorn said:

Is there an aftermarket type charging system that will produce 13.1 volts or greater at idle (1000rpm+-) available for the Commando?
My stock RM23 does not.

Glen

Click to expand...

Pictures of your Norton Commandos

Hmmmm....just sitting here wondering (oh yeah, 71 days until redeployment back to the US of A!!!!!) why there is no "post a picture of your Norton" thread on this forum. Am I missing some area of the forum that folks can post a pic of their Commando instead of on random threads? Seems it would...

www.accessnorton.com

City Garage said:

But you actually have used or have the experience so your input is valid, guesswork or not That 401 is a fun battery and we use them a lot. The only problem with the small case anti gravity batteries is that they don't have a battery maintenance system built in so you can over charge or discharge etc easily.

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