Shindengen SH775 (2018)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Glen
"I suspect the 13.1 @ 1000 is being momentarily provided by the high voltage battery rather than the charging system"

That is true, in my case the voltage without headlight is 13.5 V @ 1000 rpm, that means the battery is charged,
with H4-Led Headlight (13W) the Battery is charged about 1100 rpm, because the current direction changes into the battery.

Marcel
 
Last edited:
worntorn said:
I suspect the 13.1 @ 1000 is being momentarily provided by the high voltage battery rather than the charging system.
Click to expand...
I suspect that as well. Only way to know for sure would be to disconnect the battery.
 
I still haven't seen report of a measured 13.1 volt or greater charging system output at idle with any of the commonly available stators for the Norton/BSA/Triumph. The modern Alton alternator replacements for older dynamo bikes are great, but also fail to meet the Lithium requirement.
The Trispark reg won't fix this, although it should help with overall Lithium charging by having a higher cutout than other regulators.
So as I see it you can sort of limp around with the Norton charging system and Lithium battery, but you aren't meeting the battery manufacturer's basic requirement. Lighten the electrical load (leds, EI) do short trips , stick to rural roads and with a bit of home charging, it could be OK. Get caught in a traffic jam and there could be a problem.

Glen
 
Last edited:
I suppose it’s different for different folk and different needs, but charging at idle has never been top of my worry list. I don’t spend that long on any ride at idle. And I suspect that even the smallest battery would power a Norton for an awful long time at idle. In fact I’d imagine that if you did spend long enough at idle on Norton to worry about battery charging, you’d have other things to worry about as well… like a shagged engine !?
 
worntorn said:
I still haven't seen report of a measured 13.1 volt or greater charging system output at idle with any of the commonly available stators for the Norton/BSA/Triumph. The modern Alton alternator replacements for older dynamo bikes are great, but also fail to meet the Lithium requirement.
The Trispark reg won't fix this, although it should help with overall Lithium charging by having a higher cutout than other regulators.
So as I see it you can sort of limp around with the Norton charging system and Lithium battery, but you aren't meeting the battery manufacturer's basic requirement. Lighten the electrical load (leds, EI) do short trips , stick to rural roads and with a bit of home charging, it could be OK. Get caught in a traffic jam and there could be a problem.

Glen
Click to expand...
I measured 13.6 V @ 1000 rpm today, with LED`s and LiPo Battery and Headlight on, the key is Led`s and Trispark R/R and Ignition.

Marcel
 
worntorn said:
I still haven't seen report of a measured 13.1 volt or greater charging system output at idle with any of the commonly available stators for the Norton/BSA/Triumph. The modern Alton alternator replacements for older dynamo bikes are great, but also fail to meet the Lithium requirement.
The Trispark reg won't fix this, although it should help with overall Lithium charging by having a higher cutout than other regulators.
So as I see it you can sort of limp around with the Norton charging system and Lithium battery, but you aren't meeting the battery manufacturer's basic requirement. Lighten the electrical load (leds, EI) do short trips , stick to rural roads and with a bit of home charging, it could be OK. Get caught in a traffic jam and there could be a problem.

Glen
Click to expand...

I suppose this really doesn't count, because I don't have a huge 40 year old wiring harness, a horn, blinkers, or electronic gauges of any kind, but....
I see over 14V with lights On at idle using the old 2 wire alternator, the Tri-Spark MOSFET reg/rect, and an Antigravity 401 LiFePO4 battery. I know I must be repeating myself at this point in time.

I'll go start the darn thing later and take a pic of the DVM readout. I'm not using Norton OEM electronics or wiring other than the Lucas alternator and the two wires that come off of it. I never put a charger on the battery even though it is set up for it, and I have a lithium compatible charger. LiFePO4 holds a charge better than any battery I've ever used. Resting voltage is 13.6V every time I have checked it with the battery connected in the bike. If I turn On the ignition voltage drops to 13.44. I think that is the Boyer ignition pulling it down, but not sure. It's possible that guess work makes the dream work. Could also be the way I wired the bike. It's not a Commando restoration, but it is a Norton, albeit modified.

I rode the bike from Seattle to Winthrop and back one day, and that was 372 miles total. I only stopped for fuel, and to drain the dragon. I got caught in traffic on the way back. Stop and go for 15 minutes. Not much of a jam, but 15 minutes felt like an eternity at 85 degrees out. My only worry when stuck in traffic was would the clutch start slipping from the heat and stop and go use. It didn't. I've been stuck in HWY men at work regulated traffic at least 5 times. Zero problems, other than I don't like getting stuck in traffic riding an old air cooled Norton.
 
Is that 14 Volts idle output measuring at the alternator leads, disconnected from the battery?
I think the Lithium batteries can work ok, just not in all situations.
Mine worked ok thru Washington and Oregon then quit about halfway down the California coast. That was more of a melting problem, likely due to inadequate charging, got stuck in some Ca. traffic jams.


Glen
 
worntorn said:
Is that 14 Volts idle output measuring at the alternator leads, disconnected from the battery?

Glen
Click to expand...
Nope. I missed that alternator only test criteria in the discussion. I misinterpreted the charging system for the entire charging system. I don't ride my Norton in an alternator only configuration, so it never occurred to me. I won't do that test. I see what matters at the battery regardless of type. Besides, testing only the alternator output would not be easy to do the way my bike is wired.
 
That is what Shorai asks for.
That is the point I'm struggling a bit to make.
City Garage said it's easy , just follow the parameters set by Shorai.

It seems none of these bikes meet that requirement.


Glen
 
worntorn said:
Is that 14 Volts idle output measuring at the alternator leads, disconnected from the battery?
I think the Lithium batteries can work ok, just not in all situations.
Mine worked ok thru Washington and Oregon then quit about halfway down the California coast. That was more of a melting problem, likely due to inadequate charging, got stuck in some Ca. traffic jams.


Glen
Click to expand...
I have to admit, that kind of story makes me wonder / worry about the wisdom of having a lithium battery under (well actually pretty much inside) a big plastic fuel tank - err like on my 961 :eek:
 
My charging system ( Alton alternator) wasn't up to the 13.1 volt idle charging requirements asked for by Shorai and others.
The 961 probably does produce more than 13.1 at idle, so that is a big plus.
Both of my modern Triumph's make about 13.5 volts at idle, taken at alt leads, battery disconnected.


Glen
 
So would a shindengen sh775 series type reg/rectifier be any better than a shunt type reg/rectifier on a commando fitted with an Alton 150w alternator?
 
Fast Eddie said:
I suppose it’s different for different folk and different needs, but charging at idle has never been top of my worry list. I don’t spend that long on any ride at idle. And I suspect that even the smallest battery would power a Norton for an awful long time at idle. In fact I’d imagine that if you did spend long enough at idle on Norton to worry about battery charging, you’d have other things to worry about as well… like a shagged engine !?
Click to expand...
This right here sums it up perfectly. Pick the stator output you need(2, 3 wire, high output etc) and don't worry too much about the idle/voltage issue since we have found at idle we are close to 13 anyways. even if its under within a few minutes of riding your have recharged what you might have lost.
 
worntorn said:
My charging system ( Alton alternator) wasn't up to the 13.1 volt idle charging requirements asked for by Shorai and others.
The 961 probably does produce more than 13.1 at idle, so that is a big plus.
Both of my modern Triumph's make about 13.5 volts at idle, taken at alt leads, battery disconnected.


Glen
Click to expand...
961 does produce proper voltage and its more consistent. Plus for the same size lithium battery you can get 100 more CCA which helps with the idle issue many have struggled with
 
baz said:
So would a shindengen sh775 series type reg/rectifier be any better than a shunt type reg/rectifier on a commando fitted with an Alton 150w alternator?
Click to expand...
with what battery? lithium use tri spark or shindengen if you have the space and lead battery you can use a podtronics or wassel power module. again depends on your needs.
 
cliffa said:
I have to admit, that kind of story makes me wonder / worry about the wisdom of having a lithium battery under (well actually pretty much inside) a big plastic fuel tank - err like on my 961 :eek:
Click to expand...
IF your lithium has a BMS battery maintenance system built in like anti gravity or shorai then outside of wires shorting you would be fine. I like that using a lithium in a 961 gives you even more space from the tank instead of sitting right on the battery.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top